View Full Version : Let the public roasting commence
firemedic301
07-16-08, 16:19
Apparently the San Bernardino Sun newspaper is about to release an article that will attempt to smack us in our mouths with our salaries being published. They did it about a year ago with SB County FD employees and now SB City FD is in this jounalists cross hairs. Here is the blog to preceed the article.
http://www.insidesocal.com/sb/sbnow/2008/07/6figure_firefighters.html
The Las Vegas Review Journal (The RJ) has been doing this for years now. They will publish city and county employees salaries that make over 100k. Lets just say the FD pretty much dominates most of the paper.
Then we get bashed by Joe public in the opinion section.
The Las Vegas Review Journal (The RJ) has been doing this for years now. They will publish city and county employees salaries that make over 100k. Lets just say the FD pretty much dominates most of the paper.
Then we get bashed by Joe public in the opinion section.
Let's ask Joe Public how many hours of OT do they work!! Last year I worked over 1000 hours of OT. That comes out to an extra 42% of hours worked in a month. Let's ask Joe Public to miss out on the family an extra 50% of the time and not be compensated!! We'll see how he feels.
Hi again, I'm the new old guy. Perhaps another point of view here. You are public employees. That means just about everything about your job is of public record, including salaries.
You also make a huge pile of money. Perhaps about twice what you are really worth? Maybe, maybe not. Are we seeing a little bit of embarrassment here? Is it possible? Could it be?
I remember years and years ago when I was a kid when I asked my grandfather how much money he made. He was a retired Full Commander. He just smiled. It was a bunch.
I'm also retired Fire Service and my disability pension is sosssss tiny I have to live at or below the federal poverty level. I'ts quite possible my situation affects MY thinking. Does YOURS? :) :) :)
Ash702.....your rum is always gone 'cause us snicky guys steal in during the dead of nite when you are working elsewhere and we steal it!! Glug, glug! He he he. :) :) :)
Ash, I dont think people really give a sh** that we miss our families. Specially in a time when jobs are being cut, people loosing homes, the economy taking a huge dump, blaah blaah blaah, they are going to say you chose that career and knew what you were getting into. So why should I have to pay for that?? You are in a blue collar job, when did public service become white collar job?
Remember, the general public doesnt care what happens day to day with us. Its when something big happens like 911, the old fire, etc that they realize how much they appreciate our services. and again with time, they forget!
Every county in So.Ca. goes through the salaries being published yearly and there really isnt anything we can do about it. Its public record.
Just the nature of the beast.
Hi again, I'm the new old guy. Perhaps another point of view here. You are public employees. That means just about everything about your job is of public record, including salaries.
You also make a huge pile of money. Perhaps about twice what you are really worth? Maybe, maybe not. Are we seeing a little bit of embarrassment here? Is it possible? Could it be?
I remember years and years ago when I was a kid when I asked my grandfather how much money he made. He was a retired Full Commander. He just smiled. It was a bunch.
I'm also retired Fire Service and my disability pension is sosssss tiny I have to live at or below the federal poverty level. I'ts quite possible my situation affects MY thinking. Does YOURS? :) :) :)
Hello HB of CJ,
First of all, welcome to the site and I enjoy reading most of your replies.
Second, there is no embarrassment at all about how much I make. I'm damm proud of my job, my fire department and my "W2". To be honest, it could be more.
I'm fortunate enough to work at one of the nations busiest fire houses in the country. City of Las Vegas fire station 1 runs around 20,000 calls per year. That's over 55 runs on average per day. More than some city fire departments combined total.
I admit we do have some stations out in the burbs that don't do as much. But putting your life on the line is putting your life on the line no matter how many times a year you do it and you can't put a price on that.
For you to imply that maybe we are not "worth it" is asinine. You of all people should know that (Mr. 30 years on & retired). When I was a boot firefighter, a senior FF told me that when we're hanging out in the day room on Sunday after breakfast, we're over paid. But after just one a$$ kicking, snot slinging job, we've earned our years salaries.
I understand that we are "public" employees and just about everything we do is public record. I think what we are tired of is the sometimes idiotic letters to the editor by Joe uneducated public.
Who's fault is that you ask? Well it ours of course. For example....... Just recently (couple years ago) we had a tower graduate. At the graduation a counsel member who was the key note speaker had this to say, "You ready for your fat checks?", "We see you guys driving around all day going to the grocery store, the gym, just driving around, ya we're watching".
WOW! Interesting comments from a (now former) city counsel member? We now have a chief that meets with the city counsel once a week to educate and keep them posted on what and how "great" their fire department is. Maybe we need to better educate Joe public as well?
Vegas Bill
firemedic301
09-21-08, 22:32
Hello HB of CJ,
First of all, welcome to the site and I enjoy reading most of your replies.
Second, there is no embarrassment at all about how much I make. I'm damm proud of my job, my fire department and my "W2". To be honest, it could be more.
I'm fortunate enough to work at one of the nations busiest fire houses in the country. City of Las Vegas fire station 1 runs around 20,000 calls per year. That's over 55 runs on average per day. More than some city fire departments combined total.
I admit we do have some stations out in the burbs that don't do as much. But putting your life on the line is putting your life on the line no matter how many times a year you do it and you can't put a price on that.
For you to imply that maybe we are not "worth it" is asinine. You of all people should know that (Mr. 30 years on & retired). When I was a boot firefighter, a senior FF told me that when we're hanging out in the day room on Sunday after breakfast, we're over paid. But after just one a$$ kicking, snot slinging job, we've earned our years salaries.
I understand that we are "public" employees and just about everything we do is public record. I think what we are tired of is the sometimes idiotic letters to the editor by Joe uneducated public.
Who's fault is that you ask? Well it ours of course. For example....... Just recently (couple years ago) we had a tower graduate. At the graduation a counsel member who was the key note speaker had this to say, "You ready for your fat checks?", "We see you guys driving around all day going to the grocery store, the gym, just driving around, ya we're watching".
WOW! Interesting comments from a (now former) city counsel member? We now have a chief that meets with the city counsel once a week to educate and keep them posted on what and how "great" their fire department is. Maybe we need to better educate Joe public as well?
Vegas Bill
Well put Bill I was thinking the same thing reading HB's post. Sorry your pension is just above poverty!!! That does suck for sure, however, I bet if you could have a retirement package in the $60,000-$80,000 range for 30 years of hanging your neck out and taking your lumps, I would bet my next pay check YOU would, gladly and without reservation!!!!!!!!!! Sorry again you retired without adequate compensation for your years of service but I am WAYYYYYY worth my pay check and retirement. Ask yourself this, other than a TRAUMA SURGEON, how many other people (MD's, PA's, RN's) actually save more lives and save property on a daily basis--- Paramedic Firemen!!!! And yet we are paid less then MD's and PA's. So what is OUR value to man kind worth???? I say $250,000 - $300,000 per year so in my eyes I'm WAYYYYY under paid!!!!!! In fact I make HALF of what I'm worth.:eek:
Wow! No problem here being proud of your job. Even your department. The best $money$ can buy. But...if I made that kind of income, I would be embarrassed. I bet you are too...you just can't admit it. Perhaps "sheepish" would be a good discription also. Do you smile alot? Yeah.
Do you run that hard? Then with all respect, your system is broke. Yeah. Something is wrong. Unless I'm missing something here. What is your run critera? Dunno here. Maybe your Fire Chief should be crying "help, help, some help here!" With respect, such conditions can't endure.
I can't imagine one would be proud of running sosssss many emergency responses. I would be totally zapped. I would bid out. You said outlying companies run slower....good....use your senority. Get out of Station 1. Consider a 30 year pace...how long will you last now? :) :) :)
Wow! No problem here being proud of your job. Even your department. The best $money$ can buy. But...if I made that kind of income, I would be embarrassed. I bet you are too...you just can't admit it. Perhaps "sheepish" would be a good discription also. Do you smile alot? Yeah.
Do you run that hard? Then with all respect, your system is broke. Yeah. Something is wrong. Unless I'm missing something here. What is your run criteria? Dunno here. Maybe your Fire Chief should be crying "help, help, some help here!" With respect, such conditions can't endure.
I can't imagine one would be proud of running sosssss many emergency responses. I would be totally zapped. I would bid out. You said outlying companies run slower....good....use your senority. Get out of Station 1. Consider a 30 year pace...how long will you last now?
HB, my brother, :)
Like I said before in my previous post, I'm not embarrassed at all about my salary. I worked hard to get here and I continue to work hard and strive for excellence everyday with honor, duty, integrity & trust (sounds like an oral board).
I'm gonna bounce around here a little bit but for now I'll to stick with the original thread.
Go ahead and put my name in the paper, print it in BOLD CAPS. Put my picture right next to it, with my big a$$ SMILE. :) Yeah, I smile, I smile a lot I'm kinda known for that.
But I do feel guilty for about a half a second when I think about who much time off we get. But no guilt or embarrassment about my paycheck.
Yes we really RUN that hard. I could proudly email you the yearly run stats or if so inclined you could look them up on firehouse dot com/ run survey.
Since I've been at central/ station 1 (October 2000) we've added an additional Rescue in our firehouse for a total of 3 Rescues, 2 Engines & a Truck company. We also added a station with an Engine & Rescue in our first due (station 10). With plans for another station (station 101) 1.5 miles down the street to be completed fall of 09'. So is our system broke? Not really broke but maybe a little slow, we're just that busy. It's downtown Vegas, $hit loads of drunk tourists & cracked out lighter happy homeless (Not TAX payers).
As for being zapped out, some days...Hells yeah! But being busy is why I tested for this department. I came from a full time department that ran 1000 calls a year between 2 stations. Great Department & wonderful people but just not for me.
Bidding out to a slower station is an option (I'm on the first page of firefighter seniority) but I love being a FIREMAN & I still have a passion for this job. I signed up to work & be a fireman, not to sit around & wait for retirement.
In a couple years I'll test & promote but even then I'll try to bid a busy house. Why promote & not really learn & excel at your position???
There will be a time to bid out to battalion "do nothing" but until then this is way too much fun.
Am I gonna die early? We'll see, I hope not. But while you're still kicking HB, I offer you this. Please enjoy your retirement to the fullest & take a trip to Vegas. Drop some $dough$ at a casino (to help pay my salary:)) Then please come by the firehouse and have a hot fire station meal cooked by yours truly, (I picked up a few things from the old salty dogs). Trade a patch or T-shirt (if your into that) & when I get off shift I'll buy you a cold one or 2 or 3 or 10. :)
Respectfully,
VEGAS Bill
firemedic301
09-24-08, 10:30
Wow! No problem here being proud of your job. Even your department. The best $money$ can buy. But...if I made that kind of income, I would be embarrassed. I bet you are too...you just can't admit it. Perhaps "sheepish" would be a good discription also. Do you smile alot? Yeah.
WOW - HB I can't phathom a CAREER Engneer knowing all the risks and stress' this job lays on us, actually say WE should be embarrassed for making what we make (a decent living). That statement tells me alot!!! Thank you for your years of service and I can say by reading your post that you are a stronger person than me for ENJOYING not being EMBARRASSED by your POVERTY level retirement(your words not mine)!!!
By the way there is a website that might fit your Fire Service philosophies better than Westcoast911 it is www.firelink.com. It is mostly volunteers that bash Career Full-timers for getting paid to do this job.
For the most part HB this site is frequented by mainly PAID firefighters and EMS personnel that are proud NOT embarrassed to make a living doing this job. Embarrassed is what I woul feel if I retired at POVERTY level after risking my life for 30 years - well maybe DISHEARTED or DISENCHANTED. :(
No fancy parting shots here. It appears that we just disagree. Perhaps I better lay off this forum for awhile. Rule number one is to do no harm. Maybe I am.
Do I come across as an angry old coot? Maybe sooss. Hummmm. Perhaps you just don't understand the realities of the older generation. And...perhaps...
...fire service people today don't understand how good you have it...all of which can change in a heart beat. Please don't milk the golden goose dry. :) :) :)
No fancy parting shots here. It appears that we just disagree. Perhaps I better lay off this forum for awhile. Rule number one is to do no harm. Maybe I am.
Do I come across as an angry old coot? Maybe sooss. Hummmm. Perhaps you just don't understand the realities of the older generation. And...perhaps...
...fire service people today don't understand how good you have it...all of which can change in a heart beat. Please don't milk the golden goose dry. :) :) :)
As a brother in the fire service community, you are welcome and entitled to your opinions HB. Especially here at WestCoast911.com. That is the purpose of this arena. I think that it is important that we learn from ALL firefighters, young and old alike. :-)
Cheers,
Chile, Forum Host
Johnny on the spot
09-24-08, 22:25
Hey HB, Chile is right. We need firemen from all walks of life and all years of service... whether from a retired fireman such as yourself, all the way down to guys with just 3 years on.
thats what makes this forum a great place to learn... you can leave your rank at the door and share ideas that can make our careers and lives better, or you can wear your experience on your forehead and point to it with EVERY single post you make. neither are wrong, but only one is right.
Some strongly opinionated people that frequent this site have a hard time dealing with equally strong opinions that differ from theirs, just do not take it to heart. I enjoy your posts, even if I do not agree... you have a voice here.
No fancy parting shots here. It appears that we just disagree. Perhaps I better lay off this forum for awhile. Rule number one is to do no harm. Maybe I am.
Do I come across as an angry old coot? Maybe sooss. Hummmm. Perhaps you just don't understand the realities of the older generation. And...perhaps...
...fire service people today don't understand how good you have it...all of which can change in a heart beat. Please don't milk the golden goose dry. :) :) :)
HB,
I agree with you 100%!! You do come across as a bitter, angry, resentful old coot! But I welcome your opinions in here and look forward to arguing with you more. I can continue to express my young, slangful, tattooed opinion and you can express your crusty, out of touch, cynical opinion!! Lets go to this brother!!
Looking forward to more playful Banter....
-Marky Mark
aka Ash:cool:
HB I think you hit the nail on the head when you speak of the older generation. Your generation was different than mine, and mine is different than the new one coming on the job now. Guess what, we *BLEEP**BLEEP**BLEEP**BLEEP**BLEEP* about the new generation and I suspect it's been like that since the dawn of time.
As for how much we make, will guess what times change and so does pay. My first bi-weekly check was $497.00, now that's what I spend on diesel in a month. LOL
Peolpe are always going to bash us it's human nature do to jealousy, five more points on the test and they would have been a firefighter and not a cop.
Most of us don't do this job for the money, or the Thank you's. I do because I love being a fireman and I'm glad I make the money I do so my family and I can have a nice life. Stay safe
Thanks everyone for the support. When I hired on, way, way back in 1972, my monthly paycheck was a wopping $792.00. Our code 3 turnout stuff consisted of a yellow plastic helment, a black turnout coat and cheap canvas gardening type gloves. At nite we wore black pants with suspenders with heavy rubber boots. That was it.
Firefighters rode the tailboards. So quaint. No waist restraint straps. You just hung on. It wasn't 'til later that, with the new enclosed cab American Lafrance triples and trucks did we ride backwards behind the EN and CA. No seat belts. The older stuff were all open cabs. No roofs. I remember runs driving thru light snow. Very cool.
Wow, with that kind of paycheck, I was rich, rich, $RICH$. Instead of buying a home, I bought a brand new pickup. Typical. Work hard all shift, get off at 8am, then go home and work a second job. Was not permitted then. I got into trouble. We FF's worked a 2 patoon 66 hr work week. 24 hr shifts. Average company ran about 800 yearly.
Chows costs ran about $1.00 per meal. The older guys complained if you ran up the bills when you were cooking. Our class 1 alarm system consisted of a big bells throughout the houses. Bong, bong, bong. We had to wind them up with a big key. Mowed our own lawns every Friday. No reguired PT. Lots of pot bellies and out of shape FF's.
No union when I hired on. One year city hall said no pay raise at all. None. Finally had Teamsters. Didn't work either. Don't know what they have now. Acting was common. Straight pay. Each shift pretty much ran their own show. We had FF, EN, CA, BC, AC, DC and the Chief. Small department. 8 engines, 3 trucks, 2 BC's, 46 or more minimum. Class 1 then, now class 3?
Anyway, no additional schooling needed for promotions. No physical agility. For FF to EN just the written, a driving/pump test and the oral. I made EN on my first try, but just barely. Had to be a FF 5 years before taking the EN test. Then 3 years as an EN before taking the CA test. We were very top heavy in officers for the size of our small department. More later. Thanks. :) :) :)
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