View Full Version : Rookie speaks out!
Check out what this rookie had to say about a Mayor in one of the jursidictions his dept covers. I agree with some of his points and others I believe his is trying to make others look bad. This dept is located in So.Ca.
What do you think??
http://www.bakersfield.com/1435/story/576791.html
http://www.bakersfield.com/hourly_news/story/579557.html
http://www.kget.com/mediacenter/local.aspx?videoid=32999@video.kget.com&navCatId=5&articleID=32969
I know. Crazy huh? I read a story on the westcoast home page that said the Chief came out with an apology. Now I see why.
I'm going to wait and post this after doing some current research. Need to be correct here. Mr Harvey Hall and we/us/them/me have a "relationship" going back over 30 years. Will say now that there are at least three sides to this story, some gong way back to 1976 and this excellent forum needs to be accurate. :) :) :)
firemedic301
10-16-08, 20:43
I'm going to wait and post this after doing some current research. Need to be correct here. Mr Harvey Hall and we/us/them/me have a "relationship" going back over 30 years. Will say now that there are at least three sides to this story, some gong way back to 1976 and this excellent forum needs to be accurate. :) :) :)
This statement from "Mr. Accuracy" himself. You can go ahead and SPARE us/me YOUR interpretation of this story. I think the thread and attached articles speak for themselves.
Rookie has a HIGHER level of public safety in mind (2 thumbs up!!!!), however spread the message as gently as a BULL in a CHINA shop.
I just hope he was not spurred on by some older veterans that got him all fired up to speak out, and then hung him out to dry when the $HIT hit the fan.
He missed rule #1 in the ROOKIE handbook - be seen and not heard.
Here is something to consider: Why isnt local 1301 stepping forward and taking this fight? If they(the entire dept.) wanted FF/PM's then the local and the Dept. Brass should be the ones speaking out, not some rookie.
Private ambulances services have always been and remain to be there for one sole purpose-PROFIT. Otherwise why start a business if you arent out to make money?? Spare me all the other reasons about how they are there to provide "community" service-B.S., ITS ALL MONEY DRIVEN. I worked that arena for a number of yrs!
HB, do all the research you want, fact is the kid is right! Just look at what happened yrs ago when depts throught out So.Ca. tried to start Medic transports, the privates came un-glued.
By the way HB, I still am awaiting this other so called proof we make too much money.
trkmant46, firemedic301, hang in there, I'm still making/restablishing old/new contacts. Aren't hyphons cool? Please understand that there might be more going on here than any of us know yet. Soos, please be patient...and nice. :) :) :)
"Please understand that there might be more going on here than any of us know yet"-Ya think?!
Well the facts:
[L
IST=1]
The kid is a probationary Fireman
Kern has tried for medics in the past and had opposition from Hall Ambulance
Hall Ambulance has the exclusionary contract-I dont believe in this!
Residents in certain areas of Kern are screwed waiting for medics from Hall Ambulance
Local 1301 believes the rookies facts are wrong and do not support him
The Chief apologized to the board for what the FF said-Pathetic. He should have supplied facts that support the FF's statements-we know they are true statements
Do I believe the kid was wrong for speaking out while being on probation, yes & no. Do I believe that some senior guys that are scared to speak out put him upto it-yes.
Someone recently came to his side in the local paper and said he had years of experience in and around Kern, so he is not "new" like everyone makes him out to be. So that tells me he either worked for a small city and or Hall ambulance before KCFD and knows some good secrets and is finally saying something, because nobody else will.
Regardless, residents need to pay attention to what the kid is saying, because there is alot of validity behind his statements!
Ambulance Co's want profit! If there is no profit, there is no Ambulance! Its basic math...
There should be competitive bidding from all agencies involved and is PERFORMANCED BASED! No exclusionary contracts with counties-that is just wrong. AMR is a good example of that. If they cannot meet the contract rules, let another try!
I am still curious as to why Local 1301 has not jumped in and supported this push for FF/PMs?????
firemedic301
10-18-08, 18:10
Well said trkmant46. Now let's wait to hear what pearl of wisDUMB HB will fill us in with!!! Along with the facts about us being overpaid???
I'm new to this forum and read all of the HB dude's posts. You guys got heated there for a while but it looks like maybe this HB guy is taking a kinder gentler approach with the guys/gals in here.
The Union should have jumped on this instead of the rookie. Maybe he should have approached a union rep. instead of flying solo.
You are right though Medic301. Maybe considering seen not heard would have been better.
Ok...the long awaited research is in. Guess what? Nothing to add. Sorry everyone, no secret agreements, no secret deals, no nuthin'. I got nowhere with this one. Well, I did TRY. Nothing came of it.
The truth is, only two (2) people answered my eight (8) inquiries and they had nothing to add. Perhaps the truth is just what was reported in the first place. The truth does happen from time to time. I'm going to let it rest.
Let the flaming begin. The truth is that only a few individuals are doing sooss. I'm spending too much time on this excellent firefighting forum. I mean this old coot needs his rest! For other forum "opinions", just let me observe...
...that their opinions ALSO must be taking up an large amount of THEIR valuable time. Who are these "opinions?" Are such opinions really who they say they are?
Yeah, I know that is borderline. Sorry. I need my sleep. I'm an old retarded (retired) coot. Do these other people sleep? Easy...if you are NOT who you say you are. Sorry again. Just some observations.
I may post a new thread on the arguments regarding Public vs. Private Fire and ALM EMS protection. But then again, maybe I won't. I know a few bad apples don't ruin the barrel, but it is beginning to drag.
Again, rule #1 is to do no harm. I owe it still. Perhaps my VALID opinions are disruptive to this excellent WEST COAST 911 FORUM. If soos, them I must back off. But...if not, fasten your seat belts! He he he.
Anyway, back on topic, yeah, the rook from the KCFD may have just made a mistake. The Chief apologized. Wow! He didn't have to do that. HE could have just thrown the kid to the wolves. Thank you Chief!!!
In 1975 or soos, Mr. Harvey Hall prevented nine (9) Bakersfield City Firefighters from establishing one (1) fire department paramedic rescue primarily serving police and fire. I was one of the nine. Never have forgot.
But now I understand. Politics is a stange animal...it's kinda like fire. It can heat or it can burn. I was burned. Oh well, I got over it, but it took some time. Now I understand why he did it and I AGREE WITH HIM! HB of CJ :) :) :)
HB, remember opinions are like assholes, everyones got one!
With that said, I don't believe your opinions are disruptive, your just mis-informed. I refer back to the statement you made about Firefighters being overpaid. I believe that is your opinion and the opinions of individuals that are not educated as to what the Job of a Firefighter is. Compared to other "blue" collar jobs, it's easy to get sucked into the belief that firefighters, cops and paramedics are overpaid. However, if you look at the education levels, training, specialized positions, the amount & type of work we do with less and just the fact that we are exposed to all the diseases, bloodborne pathogens, sleepless nights, etc. our jobs cannot be compared to the general publics jobs. Ans Spare me the comment about vollies, or that there is always someone else to do it for less. We have people from the "white" collar jobs entering into the Fire Service in huge numbers and they have said they had no idea that firefighting was so hard!
Also, you cannot generalize that firefighters nationwide are all overpaid-simply not true. I personally know several FF's in other states that are currently living at the poverty line and working two other jobs to make ends meet! And Yes they are career firefighters for large depts....
In Ca. our cost of living is high, and our wages reflect that. My life is worth more than the federal minimum WAGE!!!!
Take care
Hi. With respect, you say my opinions are misinformed? Pehaps they are. However, consider this; could it also be that my opinions ARE informed and that they JUST DON'T AGREE with your own? Consider both sides.
Yeah, I have less than 10 years in the Fire Service and that was a long time ago. Ancient history. That may give me a unique perspective. Only an A/S degree in Fire Science; (64 units) lots of people today have more.
My old fire department was at one time the Number One Class 1 outfit of all time. Was still Class 1 when I worked there. Not any longer. Does that count for something? Actually no, it doesn't. Ratings are pointless now.
It was/is just another Fire Department. I barely made Engineer before leaving due to a back injury. Had some experience and lots of adventures. The Fire Service was different way back then, thats for sure.
Only 24 more units in Paramedic training, but that rug was pulled out by Mr. Harvey Hall. No clinical. A/S degree initially in Registered Nursing (RN), later ladder up to a BSN degree. (128 units) Worked tens years as an RN.
ER, ICU, CCRN tickets. Used to teach paramedic students. Over 175 total hours. (Need to find my transcripts) Lost LOTS of sick patients; lots of sick ones walked out also. Now retarded. (er..retired) Old and over the hill.
Perhaps my point of view is unique. Been on BOTH sides of the fence. However, for others to simply state my view/opinions are misinformed is pure horse apples. My opinions are valid; they only are 180 out from yours.
Who is right here? Who is wrong? NOBODY! This is an excellent fire department forum. I have been flamed for presenting valid opinions. That is beneath the flammers. You know who you are. Please grow up. HB of CJ :) :) :)
firemedic301
10-23-08, 22:09
Hi. With respect, you say my opinions are misinformed? Pehaps they are. However, consider this; could it also be that my opinions ARE informed and that they JUST DON'T AGREE with your own? Consider both sides.
Yeah, I have less than 10 years in the Fire Service and that was a long time ago. Ancient history. That may give me a unique perspective. Only an A/S degree in Fire Science; (64 units) lots of people today have more.
My old fire department was at one time the Number One Class 1 outfit of all time. Was still Class 1 when I worked there. Not any longer. Does that count for something? Actually no, it doesn't. Ratings are pointless now.
It was/is just another Fire Department. I barely made Engineer before leaving due to a back injury. Had some experience and lots of adventures. The Fire Service was different way back then, thats for sure.
Only 24 more units in Paramedic training, but that rug was pulled out by Mr. Harvey Hall. No clinical. A/S degree initially in Registered Nursing (RN), later ladder up to a BSN degree. (128 units) Worked tens years as an RN.
ER, ICU, CCRN tickets. Used to teach paramedic students. Over 175 total hours. (Need to find my transcripts) Lost LOTS of sick patients; lots of sick ones walked out also. Now retarded. (er..retired) Old and over the hill.
Perhaps my point of view is unique. Been on BOTH sides of the fence. However, for others to simply state my view/opinions are misinformed is pure horse apples. My opinions are valid; they only are 180 out from yours.
Who is right here? Who is wrong? NOBODY! This is an excellent fire department forum. I have been flamed for presenting valid opinions. That is beneath the flammers. You know who you are. Please grow up. HB of CJ :) :) :)
OK I will bite because ALL the points I bolded are up for my opinion. "BARELY MADE ENGINEER" speaks for itself as stated by yourself.
"24 more units"???? 22 more units I would have my MASTERS but I DON'T so I never say I have a MASTERS Degree.
I went through a PARAMEDIC program taught by a ICU RN that was a PARAMEDIC for 1 year before being DECERTIFIED. I learned almost ZERO from him but DID study my A$$ off as did some others on this board (taught by the same guy) to make myself a great certified PARAMEDIC, and for you to say on this board or "firehouse.com" or elsewhere that you are a PARAMEDIC is a slap in my face. Just because YOU taught PARAMEDIC'S does by NO way make you CRaP!!!! Being a functional RN mean $HIT in the field today!!!!
As for YOUR opinion of US (REAL PARAMEDIC FIREMEN) being overpaid and under worked is to say the least "YOUR OPINION" is none the less IGNORANT and competely uninformed.
I have been one of the ones that is as "Johnny on the spot" has said that wears my 10-15 year patch very visible on my sleeve. I do it proudly and without reservation, and YOU HB came on this board with a point of view that DIRECTLY insults me/us to the core of what we stand for, and then have the odasity (sp?) to say because you put the 3 smilely faces and expect us to laugh them off as "JUST your OLD COOT opinion) well BS on that!!! I am in some ways entertained by your post but not in a respectful appreciative way!!! SORRY.
You come off like an EXPERIENCED ENGINEER/PARAMEDIC but if ANY Engineer or Paramedic engaged you in an in depth conversation about technical details about our job I would bet you would be blown out of the water. So say the commentary for a ignorant audience (not us here on WESTCOAST911)
You just can't attack us and think we will just sit here quitely and take it.
Do me a favor and go to your former CLASS 1 dept BFD and walk into ANY station have lunch with them and tell them YOU think they are OVERPAID and UNDER WORKED and then come back on here and tell me how they reacted!?!
By all means keep posting it keeps my blood pressure and heart rate up. It is better then pounding 3 Monsters or RedBulls.
STOP living a life you have not EARNED, it is 2008 and WE know what our job consists of everyday not YOU, go on the EMS threads and POST as a RN and keep it real.
By all means keep posting it keeps my blood pressure and heart rate up. It is better then pounding 3 Monsters or RedBulls.
I like BLUE Monster the best.;)
firemedic301, you are very angry. You are spending too much time/effort attacking/flaming me and not my valid opinions or insights Wow, you are really hot. Why not just back off and chill out. You need too.
It would be good if you did. And...HB of CJ, maybe you better chill out also. I'm talking to myself. Old coots can do that. Why not both of us back off for awhile. Be best. What else can I do? I'm trying here.
P.S. The three (3) smile faces are a personal logo. Long story. Perhaps confusing with the posts. Not related. Goes back to grad school. Not intended to add emotional jest. Just my handle. HB of CJ :) :) :)
Ok, Firemedic can take a break from you, but I can't. You have stated to us in this forum you have proof that we (the firefighters) are overpaid. Please submit the evidence that supports your opinion, please.
I am that "old" firefighter that will hound you until I see the proof that supports your claim. Yes I am that guy that will call BS on something that sounds to good to be true.
Talk to you sooon HB
I guess I'll chime in now. So, HB you ask, "what else can I do? Im trying here." Im going to give you a couple hints here.
1. I have a female coworker who is pretty hot. Hot body and everything. I want to see her naked. But I dont ask her to show me.
2. I have a particular in-law I dont care for and wouldnt mind seeing taken off this planet. But I havent told them that.
Point being.... Some things are best left unsaid. Could get ugly. In your case its everything you say for the most part. Your opinions are as a whole, uneducated at best. I do give you props when you found nothing to share after your in depth investigation into this rookie issue and admitted it. Oh except the fact you got only 2 returned calls out of 8. Doesnt that say something to you? It did me.
Now a couple more things to possibly help:
1. Quit using soos. Its dumb and not even proper English.
2. Come up with the data you said you were about FFs being overpaid. If you cant or wont, say so.
3. Quit throwing out stats such as #s of units you have. What does that show?
4. Quit crying about losing lots of sick patients, but saved a few too? So what. Everyone on this board has. We dont cry about it on every post. If you need help because of PTSD, let me know. I can get some numbers for you.
5. I too went through the medic program with the same RN as Firemedic301. I learned more to be a nurse than as a medic. Can I call myself a nurse now? Of course not. So quit calling yourself a medic.
6. Quit hiding behind, "Im an old coot" As an "old coot" I expect more from you and that hasnt happened yet.
Now these were all my ideas to help you out. Take it or leave it. I dont really care.
Hey Bill- Blue Monster is best with a shot or 4 of home brew.
Berdoo Beau
10-24-08, 22:52
I grow tired of this... HB... the Brethren have spoken. Time to get to it. Put up or shut up. No - your opinion is NOT valid if your rhetoric is vacuous dribble. Make your claim and then back it up with references. I could care less about your smiley faces, your admitted lack of experience or your beloved Bakersfield FD. Your opinion is valid ONLY if you can back it up with references and facts. Your views on this forum are bolstered by your background, your knowledge base and your ability to express yourself intelligently.
ME =
25 years on San Bernardino City FD
20 years as a frontline paramedic in Pomona and SBFD
12+ years as an Engineer
25+ years as an instructor in multiple disciplines from EMS, FD, Tactical Medicine, Arson Investigation and Use of Force
Supervisor in FD? Nope - not yet but I supervise a portion of the Pit Lane at the Speedway in Fontana. I ran a paramedic program in Upland for a year. All of this is USELESS background stuff that only matters if I can present an argument with facts and references. Everything else on this forum is judged by how I represent myself to others and, through words and deeds, receive some measure of respect for my efforts. Cute sayings and half-assed attempts at self-deprecating humor don't cut it hear, Sir. No - I'm not angry nor am I 'flaming' you. I'm advising you to either submit some verifiable evidence of your past claims or go elsewhere with your empty comments.
We'll wait here for you....
Bill
Johnny on the spot
10-31-08, 00:16
Bill are you going to run against Obama in 2012?
Berdoo Beau
10-31-08, 22:13
Negative. 2012 should see me close to retirement and (if the Lord and money are on my side) on my third motorcycle with an option on actually building one. Then there's mowing the lawn, teaching, shooting (targets, not people), hanging with The Wife, traveling, fixing stuff that's broken, giving money to my daughters... blah, blah, blah.
Who has time to run against The Chosen One? Besides... by 2012 he'll have fixed the economy, taken away my guns, enacted the Fairness Doctrine so I won't be able to listen to Dennis Prager on the radio, solved global warming, given Al Gore a Pulitzer and an Emmy, brought all the troops home and disbanded the military, made Nancy Pulosi the Chief of the Supreme Court and installed Hillary as Gov of New York.
I'll be riding, thank you very much.
KungFooPanda
11-01-08, 00:56
Negative. 2012 should see me close to retirement and (if the Lord and money are on my side) on my third motorcycle with an option on actually building one. Then there's mowing the lawn, teaching, shooting (targets, not people), hanging with The Wife, traveling, fixing stuff that's broken, giving money to my daughters... blah, blah, blah.
Who has time to run against The Chosen One? Besides... by 2012 he'll have fixed the economy, taken away my guns, enacted the Fairness Doctrine so I won't be able to listen to Dennis Prager on the radio, solved global warming, given Al Gore a Pulitzer and an Emmy, brought all the troops home and disbanded the military, made Nancy Pulosi the Chief of the Supreme Court and installed Hillary as Gov of New York.
I'll be riding, thank you very much.
RUN TO THE HILLS!!!! run for your life! (a little Iron Maiden at ya!)
Berdoo Beau
11-02-08, 12:49
I was born with a stiff.... stiff upper lip.
It's a long way to the top if you want to rock 'n roll.
(AC/DC trumps Iron Maiden)
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