Crossing intersection crash

[firemedic301]

Doing this will result in a MEMO!!!

http://www.break.com/index/insane-crash-between-two-fire-trucks.html

I'm awaiting your INTERPRETATION of this event HB???

[trkmant46]

Firemedic301,

He (HB) is researching if the red light was really a "red" light! There may be some supporting facts that the red light which in which the fire engine ignored, was infact turning green for the Engine, and therefore the truck Co. was in the wrong!
HB may also be investigating the red light camera to see if it has had any problems in the past that would cause it to malfunction and show a red light instead of a green light.

[firemedic301]

I think one thing is clear - BOTH engine operators are "OVERPAID":):):)
There I put smiley faces so it is OK that I bashed the drivers right HB:rolleyes:

Only saying it would have been entertaining to see HOTTIE and HB go at it!!!
R.I.P. - HOTTIE

[trkmant46]

You know your right firemedic, it is kinda boring without them in here playing with us!

[lvladder1]

That's a crazy video! WOW!!! I'm studying for our next engineer test (EN:):):), DO, FAO, or what ever the heck you wanna call it)....
Kinda makes ya sit back & go Hmmmmm.......


Buckle up, it'll save a life.

[trkmant46]

In all seriousness, WTF! There is no reason for that to happen. We all want be the "first" in on a worker, but is it worth our lives or the loves of some innocent citizen? NO! We still see it though: Engines, trucks, medic units hauling *BLEEP**BLEEP**BLEEP* to get there quick... No reason for it. I have had the unfortunate luck to be involved in a few T/C's on calls, let me say, just not worth it!

Just a thought..

HB YOU STILL RESEARCHING. I am rotting away awaiting the research that says I am overpaid.

[lvladder1]

Here's another link if your "WORK" computer wont let you access the one provided earlier. (i.e. Vegas fire? WTF) www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2008/10/20/dnt.mo.fire.truck.collision.cnn You can clearly see ( about 42 seconds in the into the video) that the Engine that got rolled had the red.
I'm also hearing that the St. Louis FD doesn't have a dedicated Engineer position. :confused: If you have any other info about that let us know.

[HB of CJ]

Hi everyone, HB of CJ here. "I will need to research this accident further. Might take some time, sooss bear with me. Hang in there, be patient". He he he.

Gee, where do I start? I might not be qualified to handle this one, as I only had about 1000 emergency runs driving in my SHORT fire career.

I'm serious here. SERIOUS! You need to talk to a really old EN (engineer) who has had at least 10,000 or sooos. Yes, I mean it, I'm not qualified for this one.

Amazed? Wow. However,..(since it is apparent you did ask) it seems even to the likes of me that it was a very blind intersection in some city.

Policy might/may/could/should be (he he he) that you come to a complete rolling stop before preceeding if the light is red against you.

Obviously one of the apparatus did not. Was it the Engine or the Ladder Truck? Dunno. My eyes are old. Tell me who ran the "Red?"

Or...was the light controlled by BOTH apparatus and some sort of electronic bad thing happen? Was the intersection "apparatus controlled"? Dunno.

Or...was it a stop sign both directions? Dunno again. Except for all the "Dunnos", everything is fine. If a two way stop, someone goofed? One way?

Point is that both apparatus may have been going too fast for conditions. Had it been me driving (and it was NOT) I would have been going slower.

Going slower even if I had all green lights all the way to the call. But then I had a rep of kinda driving slow all the time. Guess I'm kinda slow.

An Engine and a Ladder Truck. Who was driving? Do they swap out driving chores, or does the juristiction (sp?) in question have dedicated Engineers

or Apparatus Operators? Dunno. Researching the driving experience of the operators in question might bring some enlightenment to this horrible wreck.

Slight chance an inexperienced driver may have been driving one of the rigs. But, we don't know. More research needed if you are serious about this.

Seriously, I haven't a clue what happened. Does anyone else? Might just be "right foot, red light fever" thing, but I kinda doubt it. Any takers here?

Punishment? Good guy, wrong guy? Gosh, I hope not. Maybe nobodys fault. Somtimes "do..do" just happens. Thanks. HB of CJ. :) :) :)

[lvladder1]

HB,
Read my reply right above your reply to answer some of your questions.

[HB of CJ]

ivladder1, that might be an excellent idea. Reason why I don't read the other posts before posting myself is that it can bias ones answers, like letting prior stuff influence your therefore more "educated" or "inlightened" answer.

I try not to do that. Also it is a time thing, other daily activites take time away from my computer use in general and this excellent West Coast 911 Forum in particular. Like sleep. I hear you. Was there something earlier?

Practically, I have a $cheap$ computer made up from spare parts and my access speed is a glacial 48K. Rural. That means it took about 8 minutes to download the rig wreck. Yeah, you got a good point, thanks. HB of CJ :) :) :)

[LVFRENG1]

I have some knowledge of STL. FD and they don't have engineer positions. Their rank structure is Firefighter PVT.s 1 thru 9 then Captain,BC and so on.The driver for the shift can be the newest guy or the most senior guy depending on the mood of the day. Some guy's don't like to drive and would rather fight fire.

This to me is a bad recipe, because if the driver of the day is pissed about driving. You have to wonder where his focus is at. The other side of the coin is a young guy excited about driving and not thinking about the dangers that exist with driving a 60,000 pd. Quint.

Also the two vehicles in the accident were both Quints not a Truck and Engine. St.Louis has no engines, They have 4 Trucks with platforms and the rest are Quints. Being a Engineer it's hard to try and find fault with either driver, I'm just glad no one was killed or seriously injured. I really hope St.Louis turns this into a learning tool and passes it along to the rest of us.

[trkmant46]

Ok, I'll bite on this. How can you say you can't find fault with either driver!?
The one engine absolutely ran a solid red light...Someone is responsible for the crash. I know with MOSTagencies, it is a requirement to either slow down or stop at a red light. That did not occur here. Yea, sucks that brother FFs were hurt and I know its not cool to jump to conclusions, however unless there is some overwhelming evidence that there was something else that caused the accident, I am sticking to my guns!

[LVFRENG1]

Trkman

The reason I said that is because as a Engineer you are required, to clear an intersection before proceeding through it. If you have a green light,red light, stop sign or unmarked intersection. Neither driver did this, so without any of the pertinent information, that is all I can conclude. Like I said I hope they use this as a learning tool going forward.

[methodman]

Oh it's a learning tool alright.

I've learned that I am happy riding in the back seat, putting on my seatbelt and not worrying about the heavy responsibility of being a driver. :cool:

[firemedic301]

Oh it's a learning tool alright.

I've learned that I am happy riding in the back seat, putting on my seatbelt and not worrying about the heavy responsibility of being a driver. :cool:

2nd that - WORD!!!!!!
Then again walking through the door and having a Mother scream that her asthmatic 11 year old daughter just went into respiratory arrest and being confronted by a BLUE little girl. I might take the pressures of the Engineer position any day. By the way when we left the ER the little girl was Alert and Oriented!!!!

[KungFooPanda]

2nd that - WORD!!!!!!
Then again walking through the door and having a Mother scream that her asthmatic 11 year old daughter just went into respiratory arrest and being confronted by a BLUE little girl. I might take the pressures of the Engineer position any day. By the way when we left the ER the little girl was Alert and Oriented!!!!

I LOVE IT WHEN OUR BRO'S TAKE CARE OF BUSINESS AND THE PEEPS ARE STILL ALIVE!!!! thanks stevee.