...or Just Bad Manners?

[Berdoo Beau]

Just to change the subject around here... Is it Socio-Economic Impact or just Bad Manners with the general public? When I came into the EMS community in '79 and then transitioned to FD in '83, it seemed that the response to our arrival was about 90% respectful and 10% smart-a$$ with a touch of plain disrespect.

Now it seems that those numbers have moved into the area of about 60% respectful and 40% straight-out-of-the-gutter bad manners, smart-a$$ comments and out-right disdain for ANYTHING even remotely authoritarian. I realize the MTV crowd has morphed into a liberalized, anti-conservative movement but does it have to sacrifice descent behavior as well? I grew up with MTV and Greenpeace activities and survived the tie-dyed experience and glam-rock but I can't accept the attitude of irrational defiance and disrespect for any form of organized public safety efforts.

Is it the same in your areas of operations or is it unique to "The Armpit of the Inland Empire"? Sorry about dropping this load but the latest rounds of public contacts have revealed an attitude that just stumps me. Please help me understand so that I can lessen this growing desire to beat the sh*t out of some of my paycheck contributors.

Cheers!
Bill

[KungFooPanda]

HEY BEAUBEAU!! come back to 2's. we're getting McD's soon. i know the peeps would appreciate your wit.

[firemedic301]

Just to change the subject around here... Is it Socio-Economic Impact or just Bad Manners with the general public? When I came into the EMS community in '79 and then transitioned to FD in '83, it seemed that the response to our arrival was about 90% respectful and 10% smart-a$$ with a touch of plain disrespect.

Now it seems that those numbers have moved into the area of about 60% respectful and 40% straight-out-of-the-gutter bad manners, smart-a$$ comments and out-right disdain for ANYTHING even remotely authoritarian. I realize the MTV crowd has morphed into a liberalized, anti-conservative movement but does it have to sacrifice descent behavior as well? I grew up with MTV and Greenpeace activities and survived the tie-dyed experience and glam-rock but I can't accept the attitude of irrational defiance and disrespect for any form of organized public safety efforts.

Is it the same in your areas of operations or is it unique to "The Armpit of the Inland Empire"? Sorry about dropping this load but the latest rounds of public contacts have revealed an attitude that just stumps me. Please help me understand so that I can lessen this growing desire to beat the sh*t out of some of my paycheck contributors.

Cheers!
Bill

26,000 calls involving 5-10% of the population of our fine City is not a fair representation. To get clarity, do citizens that recieve 70-100% governmental aid, pay our checks? Yes in a round about way, I guess. What is SCARY is look where WE were 15-20 years ago, where WE are today, and then IMAGINE where WE will be 15-20 years from now with PUBLIC RESPECT and types of calls??????? Won't effect me but, will affect my son and the rest of OUR kids that follow in our foot steps.

Good thing is now that OBAMA is Pres everything is going to get better!!!???!!! Race relations, Financial issues, War on Terror, Homeland security, Corrupt Government, Unemployment and so on are going to be FIXED - HE TOLD and PROMISED us HE would fix everything - I can't wait to see this magic.

There are Contributors and TAKERS in the system. Use to be 8-9 contributors to every 1 taker (20 years ago), now it is 6 contributors to 4 takers!!! All I know is the future of California is looking BRIGHT!!!! I realize I am off topic slightly but I'm sure it is related somehow.

[Berdoo Beau]

Stevo.... ya kill me. Ya just plain kill me. You were tasked to help me deal with this depressing crapola, not give me more stuff to deal with. This is NOT what I pay you for...

KFP... working at 222 would be... um, ok. But right now - working in God's Country is slightly better. Only slightly though. I could, of course, work my magic on the West Side but I'm not sure it would be appreciated by.... others.

People...if I don't get some concrete answers on this dilemma I'm going to....

....go riding.

[ladderpiper]

Hey Berdoo Beau,

I would love to lay down an awesome slam in jest and say that it is just the Inland Empire of California. But the fact of the matter is that there are 911 abusers EVERYWHERE. And yes, they ALL seem to know that they "pay your salary!"

It's too funny. The job and clientele is the same everywhere. The bad encounters with the ingrates are often irritating, but it beats interfacility transports. I did that for quite a while.:mad:

[Berdoo Beau]

Well said. Used to do those inter-facility transports myself. Glad thats over with. Don't know about you but now that Obama is our President-Elect, I'm sleeping more soundly at night and waking up to brighter mornings. I'm sure the general public will see the light and act more reasonably knowing that Dub-Ya is outta there in 6 more weeks. Woo-hoo!

.... and then....

....monkeys flew out of my a$$......

[Johnny on the spot]

"the job and clientele is the same everywhere" (ladderpiper)

I disagree with this opinion. I have spent the first half of my short fire career just 25 miles west of San Bernardino City... and there is a huge difference!!

Just to make things easier, I will call my former Department "downland". In Downland, there is little to no fire, here at City, there is a butt-load. In 3 years at Downland I had 2 "real" structure fires. In my first 3 months here at city I had 5 or 6 rippers. Why? I know not of these things, but my guess is that the citizens of downland take care of their homes, do not engage in criminal acts such as arson, and do not "squat" at abandoned homes and start warming fires, unlike SB City.

In Downland, when someone called 911 for chest pain, they actually had chest pain! They were compliant with their meds and took care of themselves. They would actually appologize for "bothering" us for calling 911 while they were having an MI or CVA. Total opposite in SB City.

In Downland, we would respond to Traffic Collisions. All vehicle operators were legal citizens, had drivers licenses, had no warrants for their arrest, had car insurance and were not under the influence of drugs or alcohol. SB city..... well you get the picture.

Thankfully, it is not the "same everywhere". I work in a great city with great firemen with a ton of experience...getting the experience that I may not get elsewhere.

[TaylorMade]

Mr. Johnny Spot,

I find your response to be very typical of an individual that only has a few years in the fire service. Am I correct?

I have no doubt that you probably work in an area that provides you the opportunity to "do the job".

Just remember that the job of firefighter IS virtually the same everywhere just as Ladderpiper states.

There is however one distinct variable; and that is, to what degree is it the same.

Although I work in one of the most expensive areas in all of California, I still happen to experience the same types of calls for service as yourself, but to a much, much lesser degree.

I am sure that the same is true for "Downland".

Your comments in this thread are very typical of a young arrogant firefighter that has a tremendous amount of pride in their department. Just be sure not to slam the city in which your paycheck is derived.

[Johnny on the spot]

"I find your response to be very typical of an individual that only has a few years in the fire service. Am I correct?"

Taylormade... You are CORRECT, sir! But considering that I said "... of my short fire career..." you will not get a pat on the back, nor will you get a cookie!! :)

It may be true that, in general, the "job of firefighter is virtually the same everywhere...". I am not arguing for or against that statement. The fact of the matter is that Ladderpiper incorrectly expressed an opinion, or belief, as fact when he said "The job and clientele is the same everywhere." If you re-read my post, I was speaking exclusively about the clientele.

I have only worked at 2 fire departments as a fireman, covering 2 seperate cities. The difference of the "job and clientele" in these 2 cities is night and day. As an EMT and Medic on an ambulance I was fortunate to run calls in many different cities with a lot of Fire Departments. Also, as you are very aware of, the fire service is a small community. I have good friends who are firemen at many different departments and I know their "...job and clientele...", they are different... way different.

It is also true that I have a tremendous amount of pride in my department. My department rocks, and I do understand that it is not because of anything I have done. It is because of the hard work, experience, and knowledge of the guys that came before me that has made City Fire a great fire department... and I am both thankful and proud to be a part of it. Arrogant? Probably not, but you would have to know me to make that judgement, and you do not know me.

Also, I don't feel I was slamming the city I work for or the people that pay my checks. I was just stating my observations of my surroundings. Finally, make NO mistake....the "city" or people that I was making comments about in my former post do not pay my check... in general, they do not pay much of anything. Joe the plumber, You, and I pay for it.

[firemedic301]

"I find your response to be very typical of an individual that only has a few years in the fire service. Am I correct?"

Taylormade... You are CORRECT, sir! But considering that I said "... of my short fire career..." you will not get a pat on the back, nor will you get a cookie!! :)

It may be true that, in general, the "job of firefighter is virtually the same everywhere...". I am not arguing for or against that statement. The fact of the matter is that Ladderpiper incorrectly expressed an opinion, or belief, as fact when he said "The job and clientele is the same everywhere." If you re-read my post, I was speaking exclusively about the clientele.

I have only worked at 2 fire departments as a fireman, covering 2 seperate cities. The difference of the "job and clientele" in these 2 cities is night and day. As an EMT and Medic on an ambulance I was fortunate to run calls in many different cities with a lot of Fire Departments. Also, as you are very aware of, the fire service is a small community. I have good friends who are firemen at many different departments and I know their "...job and clientele...", they are different... way different.

It is also true that I have a tremendous amount of pride in my department. My department rocks, and I do understand that it is not because of anything I have done. It is because of the hard work, experience, and knowledge of the guys that came before me that has made City Fire a great fire department... and I am both thankful and proud to be a part of it. Arrogant? Probably not, but you would have to know me to make that judgement, and you do not know me.

Also, I don't feel I was slamming the city I work for or the people that pay my checks. I was just stating my observations of my surroundings. Finally, make NO mistake....the "city" or people that I was making comments about in my former post do not pay my check... in general, they do not pay much of anything. Joe the plumber, You, and I pay for it.

In a round about way they do pay our pay checks!!!! If "THEY" didn't call us 22,000 times a year and WE only ran say 5000 calls a year it would be hard to justify having a dept of our size!!! Would it happen? probably, but I was just playing DEVILS advocate.

As far as ARROGANCE Webester defines it as:
ar⋅ro⋅gance   /ˈærəgəns/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [ar-uh-guhns] Show IPA Pronunciation

–noun offensive display of superiority or self-importance; overbearing pride.

Yep I think Taylormade got ya there, however it fits a lot of guy's in the Fire Service. Hell what do I know? I just hide behind my 15 year patch and shoot verbal bottle rockets at guy's;)

Modest and Humble Pride comes with age - I'm just sayin.

[GirlMedic03]

You are very accurate when you say that "most firefighters are arrogant" FireMedic301. I notice that of many fire guys everywhere. As I got older, I began to notice that my Dad was arrogant in many ways.

No girl wants to date a guy that lacks confidence anyway.

Asfor your original question Berdoo, I think that the manners and respect of the people we respond to help has totally gone down. It's not just the inland empire. It's out here towards L.A. too.

[firemedicmatt]

I would have to agree with Girlmedic, I am in L.A. and it seems like no one really respects us, or any uniform for that matter.

But I will have to disagree that Firefighters are arrogant... FF's Arrogant, now come on!:rolleyes:

[Johnny on the spot]

301. I think you are right, in a round-about way they DO "pay" our checks by providing the "demand" with the 22K+ times they call us out. (i think we are at 23,400 right now...?)

As for arrogance, you are wrong. I do not have overbearing pride. I do admit to having "tremendous" pride, however, "tremendous" is not synonymous with "overbearing". I do not offensively display superiority. Also, I do not offensively display self-importance.

Finally, "Modest and Humble Pride comes with age - I'm just sayin." Both modesty AND humility are in fact ANTONYMS of "pride", so there is no possibility of having either "modest pride" OR "humble pride", no matter how old you are.

[firemedic301]

Johnny you are correct!!! My bad, I should learn not to get into a verbal or grammarical battle with someone of your level (someday I will brush up on my ANTONYMS and SYNONYMS and try to give you a run for your money). It's like I bring a squirt gun to a gun battle.

In the short time I have been in the Fire service I have seen a FEW HUMBLE young guy's and a FEW more COCKY (3/30's) and I will leave it up to you to assess how you are viewed by your peers - if you even care.

I will openly admit that in certain circles, people find me ARROGANT (sometimes even an A-Hole:eek: just ask County Fire) even though I honestly try not to be, it just is what it is, you can't always change peoples PERCEPTIONS!!!

[Berdoo Beau]

GirlMedic = (and others that have made similar comments) - thank you for your post. Do you (or anyone else) have any observations as to WHY this change in public behavior has occurred? Any ideas as to what brought about these changes and anyway we can prevent it from getting worse?

John-John = interesting points (both grammatical and observational) you've made regarding attitude, arrogance and pride. However, to add an adjective to a word such as "pride" (which is both a noun and a verb and something you've already done) is a perfectly acceptable modifier. Pride is the lofty view of one's self or one's own. It is considered to be "the love of one's own excellence." The opposite of pride is humility and is quite often referenced as a virtue. When viewed as a virtue, pride in one's appearance and abilities is known as virtuous pride, greatness of soul or magnanimity, but when viewed as a vice it is often termed vanity or vainglory. Therefore - humble pride and/or modest pride is correct (that was for you, Steve-O!).

Knowing you as I do, I accept your self-description about arrogance and importance. One aspect you might consider, though, is cockiness. "Tremendous Pride" not withstanding, your daily on-duty displays and your single wheel off-duty demonstrations reveal a bent towards the extrovert. As the shifts turn into years, how will you temper this Type A-ness? As you ponder that - continue to be one that sets the example.

But back to the original question... if it's true that our "clients" are becoming less receptive towards basic contact and leaning more towards being outright nasty - is it something WE'VE done and/or something we can control / fix?

Inquiring minds want to know.....