View Full Version : Rough road ahead
Hello fellow firefighters,
The topic of the tough economy has been brought up in a couple of threads, but I wanted to give it special attention. I wanted to take a moment to encourage all of my firefighter brothers and sisters to buckle down and get ahold of your finances. Many of us count on overtime to make our bulls and to pay for our toys.
Anyone who knows me will tell you that I live by the slogan, "The glass is half full." I am not a pessimist (sp?), rather an optomist. Having said that, I am also a realist.
It's my personal opinion that the state economy is going to continue to spiral. When sales are down, the state gets less sales tax revenue. Keep in mind that whe an item is sold at the local level, the sales tax goes directly to the state. The state takes their cut off the top (usually 12%) and sends the rest back to the city. When the state is in bad shape, they will take more off the top.
Other state revenues come from property taxes. As you know, as housing prices drop, so does the property tax revenue. Building of new homes are also waaaay down. So too are the permit and building fees.
As the state budget continues to decline, you can bet that the state will keep more money that should have been sent back to the cities. As a result, you will see a drop in your city's projected revenue. Since 71-72% of the average city's revenue is spent on public safety, you can see the desire to cut us.
How will this occur? Barstow just dropped their staffing from 3/0 to 2/0. Stockton closed a truck (until the firefighters voted to forego a 3% pay raise), rolling brownouts in Anaheim and Sacramento. LA City is considering a hiring freeze for police and fire.
Hold on, it's going to get REALLY bad. MAKE SURE YOUR PERSONAL FINANCES ARE IN ORDER.
Stay safe everyone,
Paul Lepore
Battalion Chief
WWW.aspiringfirefighters.com
TaylorMade
12-01-08, 07:40
Thant is great advice that you give Chief. I have always advised our newest members to NOT get accustomed to the overtime, and to take it easy on the major expenses.
It was unfortunate that we all lost so much from our 401K during this last year. Having just 3.5 years left, I was lucky enough to switch my funds over to some conservative accounts.
This is the worse financial threat to our California cities that I have seen in 26 years. Chief Lepore is giving us some very sound advice.
Chief LePore, very well said! I think it will get A LOT worse over the next year...only time will tell
No disrespect Chief, but I am tired of all the Doomsday talk!
Have you ever noticed that the media blows things up so much that many of the bad things that go down are "self-fulfilling?"
I understand what you are telling us though BCLepore. a ridiculous amount of cities are in bad shape. My question is, "why in the hell didn't most of them prepare for the economic down-turn?" I saw it coming a long time ago, and held off on buying big ticket items, and I went to CASH a year ago in my deferred comp.
In January I'm gonna start contributing again.
Oh, great books by the way. I have 2 of them.
Tuffstuff,
Thanks for the compliments on the books. I wish I had YOUR foresight to move my cash in my defered comp. Now I , like many others, am hoping my money comes back.
Why didn't cities save more for a rainy day? Heck, I don't think anyone saw it getting this bad. That's why the entire world is affected. Never in our life time has the entire world's economy been impacted like it is today.
As I said in my original post, I am not a doomsdayer. You have read my books and you see that I am a pretty upbeat guy. The intent of my posts is to educate my peers (and the younger guys) about the state and future of matters that relate to our profession.
Having said all of that, stand by. The worst is yet to come. They announced the 533,000 jobs were lost in the month ov November. That is the single worst month in 32 years. The economy continues to spiral.
BcLepore... You keep saying "hang on, hold on, hunker down, be ready, blah blah blah".
What are we supposed to be waiting for for? Are you talking about OT slowing down or fire departments cutting "suppression" positions? Ya departments are canceling new hire academies or postponing new stations or equipment orders. But how does that effect me financially? (besides the OT, witch I never relied on anyway).
I understand that cities are cutting back but when you hear a rumor about somebody laying off "SUPPRESSION" personnel, then I'll "hunker down".
Please don't use CDF or CAL Fire as an example either...
Or maybe your post was for the new guys that have a second & third mortgages, two car/truck payments, a boat payment, a trailer/ toy hauler/ 5th wheel payment, a couple of quads and a sand car payment, a couple of maxed out high limit credit cards and the high maintenance trophy wife... Oh, almost forgot the station investment group that just recently tanked.... And they have to rely on OT to cover the monthly note?
Is this the guy you were talking to? Correct me if I'm wrong ( I have a feeling
I'm wrong).
LVLADDER: There are depts nationwide that are currently laying off/firing firefighters as we speak! Some locals even have a "displaced" Firefighter list going. So, it may not hit vegas like some other cities due to your tourism, but I know of several Southern California cities that may file bankruptcy very soon due to the states financial crisis. And that WILL have a direct impact of suppression positions. My Dept is already starting to prepare for some cut backs!
Good luck all!
Didn't Orange County (CA) go bankrupt in the early 90's? Did they have any lay offs and how are they doing now? Does anybody know?
Also TrkmnT46, the tourism out here in Vegas helps but so does the 30 year tax initiative that voters passed in 2000. We were lucky things were booming out here back then and voters felt public safety is something that shouldn't be skimped on.
stay frosty...
firemedic301
12-07-08, 14:32
BcLepore... You keep saying "hang on, hold on, hunker down, be ready, blah blah blah".
What are we supposed to be waiting for for? Are you talking about OT slowing down or fire departments cutting "suppression" positions? Ya departments are canceling new hire academies or postponing new stations or equipment orders. But how does that effect me financially? (besides the OT, witch I never relied on anyway).
I understand that cities are cutting back but when you hear a rumor about somebody laying off "SUPPRESSION" personnel, then I'll "hunker down".
Please don't use CDF or CAL Fire as an example either...
Or maybe your post was for the new guys that have a second & third mortgages, two car/truck payments, a boat payment, a trailer/ toy hauler/ 5th wheel payment, a couple of quads and a sand car payment, a couple of maxed out high limit credit cards and the high maintenance trophy wife... Oh, almost forgot the station investment group that just recently tanked.... And they have to rely on OT to cover the monthly note?
Is this the guy you were talking to? Correct me if I'm wrong ( I have a feeling
I'm wrong).
That right there is the total Fireman Package!!!!!!:eek:
Ladder1,
It sounds like you are in a better financial position than most of us. While my family and I do not "rely" on overtime, it sure makes it nice ( I have 36 hours scheduled for next week).
What do I expect? Well let me just name a few things that have already happened:
San Diego is closing two stations
Stockton closed a truck company (it was reopened after the firefighters agreed to a 3% pay cut)
Hemet just closed a fire station
Barstow is dropping their staffing from 3 to 2.
Ontario cancelled opening a new station
Rolling brown outs in Anaheim
Rolling brown outs in Sacramento
City of Orange just rescinded the offer to 7 firefighters who were in backgrounds
Ladder1,
It sounds like you are in a better financial position than most of us. While my family and I do not "rely" on overtime, it sure makes it nice ( I have 36 hours scheduled for next week).
What do I expect? Well let me just name a few things that have already happened:
San Diego is closing two stations
Stockton closed a truck company (it was reopened after the firefighters agreed to a 3% pay cut)
Hemet just closed a fire station
Barstow is dropping their staffing from 3 to 2.
Vallejo just dropped from 4 to 3 on the truck
Ontario cancelled opening a new station
Rolling brown outs in Anaheim
Rolling brown outs in Sacramento
City of Orange just rescinded the offer to 7 firefighters who were in backgrounds
I have to believe that with the economy the tourism is down substantially in Las Vegas. I would be surprised if your department has not been impacted....
I don't think that BCLepore is doing anybody any harm by telling us to chill on spending and "get ready".
What I got out of it was he was trying to pass on some insight and help us (as firefighting brothers) out.
And hey LVladder, in Vegas things are probably going well, but alot of us in Cali are hurting and running scared about department cutbacks. :eek:
It usually takes years to get positions back.
I know you're not being negative BCLepore. We all know things are tough everywhere now. I just read the article in the west coast news Vallejo. That sucks for those guys.
Oh, by the way, I may have had forthought in those other areas Chief, but I am upside down in my house. :mad:
BCLepore,
Glad to here about your 36 hours of scheduled OT next week. A little extra money is always nice... As for me being more financially secure then you, I doubt that, "Chief".
Your warning or advise is good for the guys that have had their eyes closed and can't see the writing on the wall.
OT is relatively new out here in the City of Las Vegas (about 6 years ago we went to constant staffing). Since then we've hired about 100 (maybe more?) people and the OT has slowed quite a bit but it's still around for now. In January when this current tower of 12 graduates I'm sure it will slow down even more.
I too love the extra money that OT brings but I never let myself become a "whore". In the past I have heard the younger/ newer guys say, "All I need is 3 overtimes a check to make my house payment."... We get paid twice a month. That means these knuckle heads needed 6 OT's a month just to make ends meet. It's hard for me to fathom that guys would let themselves get that far over extended. So brother firefighters, please take warning and heed the wise words of the "Forum Chief"..."Hunker down" and try to live on your regular salary.:)
Method Man,
It sucks to hear about positions being cut and rigs being shutdown out there in Cali. I have many friends out there and hope the best for you guys! Things out here are good for now. The City saw this coming about a year ago and started planning for it. They have cut lots of FAT from the top and not filled vacant positions in other departments within the city. The City Manager has had regular monthly meetings with the fire stations to give us a heads up of what’s going on and to ask for money saving ideas. Plus the guys on the Rescues have been stepping up tremendously and transporting a lot more (making the city money). So for now things are good... I'm on the tail end of a 48 hour OT shift (nice for Christmas). We have a tower going on right now and we are opening a new station on Friday.
You say that you guys are "running scared"... Don't be skerrrd... Just be wise with your money "hunker down".
If you're worried about possibly being laid off, then are you applying for other departments? Good luck bro, I hope the best for you. I don't want to see anybody loose their jobs.
Stay Frosty
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