View Full Version : Shift Schedules
This is kind of springing off of the fuel price thread in "off duty" arena, but I felt this was probably a more appropriate area for this thread. With the fuel costs rising, have you or your department considered ways to save on commuting, i.e.: carpool incentives, shift trading or a complete change like a "48/96" schedule? A "48/96" shift schedule would save half of the commute $$$. I know some departments have gone to that and love it...some have tried to go to it but met resistance from chiefs or those who are resistant to change. Hmmm, five commutes vs. ten sounds kind of tempting.
TaylorMade
03-15-08, 02:20
We sill work a 4/4/6. Coming to the final stretch of my career, I would hate to change schedules now. I guess I can't miss what I don't know.
It only takes me 25 minutes to get to work to my home station. Sometimes overtimes take longer. But I surely feel it in my wallet.
I'm a typical firefighter with a diesel truck that only hauls loads a few times a year.:confused:
I know...everyone has their comfort zone, especially when they're used to a specific schedule. I worked that 4/4/6 Kelly when I was working private ambulance out of a fire station. The gurney jockeys didn't make enough money to keep the 6 day free of overtime. The fire guys went out of their way to keep the 6 day pure. One of the firemen even had "6 days off" someway or another on his license plate. I've worked the 3/4 Kelly also and the four days seemed to come pretty quickly...but a six day?...sweet!
Red Hot Truckie
03-15-08, 14:11
We work the 48/96 at my department and I love it. It does save me lots of money on fuel. I worked the 3/4 kelly and the 4/6, and i like the 48/96 the best. I do live about 90 miles from work and it helps me out. Some people talk about being tired on the second day if your at a busy station. I work at a really busy station, and its not that bad. Its nice to know you have the option of having 4 days off every time you get off your shift. Another thing that we do, wich kinda sucks, is that we cant work longer than 96 hours with out 24 hours off. I got a buddy who works for kern co. and they do a kelly x2 i guess you can say. 2 on 2 off 2on 2 off 2 on 8 OFF.
The 48/96 is the way to go. The time fly's by and your home again. Now would be a great time to sell it to Admin. with the fuel prices skyrocketing.
A 48/96 shift cycle would be fine....for those of us that aren't running 18-22 calls on average per day. But what you gotta remember is that you gotta be up and functioning like normal for the next day. And I don't know about you, but if I've been getting my teeth kicked in all night in the Naked City, I wanna go home and crash!! You have to consider fatigue into your job performance. If you are too tired, you won't be able to perform at maximum capacity.
Plus you also have the question of overtime and callbacks. If I wanna work one, am I now gonna be on a 72 or even a 96? Doesn't sound like a good idea to me. Being away from my family and kids that long is too long.
It would be nice if you had a greater communte than I do (I live less than 10 miles from my station) but otherwise, it would suck. Move closer to the department you work for...life is better.
You sound like the typical 48/96 hater that has never actually worked the schedule. There are times when you get worked over but one day or two days, you still want to go home and crash. You will still end up with a 72 0r 96 on a 3/4 as well, or in the middle of your four day. It is really nice to go to work, work your two days and go home for four. If you like OT, your gonna make your own bed no matter what schedule you work. A majority of those who try it, love it and don't want to go back!
I agree the 48/96 is a great schedule! The argument about working 72's or 96's is really not a great argument because you are just as likey to work a 72 or a 96 on the kelly schedule. I worked it for a little over 2 years and have now been on the 48/96 for about 5 years now and on average I have worked about the same amount of 72's and 96's. With the 48/96 schedule if you dont like 72's+ then you just dont work ots on your first or last day of your 4 day. On the kelly the only way to avoid a 72+ was to work only on your 4 days and it really cuts down the amount of 4 days you get. Another reason why the 48/96 is great is that it does cut down on your commuting and gas consumption because it cuts your travel time in half for the month, even if you only live ten minutes away from work. You still travel less creating less polution no matter how far you drive. If your worried about being to tired your captian just has to make a point of getting you some rest the next day, in reality you can always make time to get some rest through out the day. But I do know your pain Ash, My stations engine runs 15+ calls a shift and sometime the second day can be tough but you just have to make time to rest.
You can say what you want about being a "Typical 48/96 hater." You are right, I haven't worked that schedule, and probably never will. But trying to justify it by saying is saves gas and all that is a bunch of crap. Most of us make at least 80-100 grand a year and drive big a$$ trucks. That is so we can pull our big a$$ boats or go to the dunes in our big a$$ toyhaulers with our kick a$$ sand rails or motorcycles. And now you wanna talk about gas conservation? Give me a break....
I just got off a 72 (worked a owed trade on an in betweener) and it sucked. I don't mind working a 48 on occasion for an OT, but I have control over that and it is my choice. But I still don't see the benefit of the constant 48/96 schedule. You will have guys that did get killed the day before and do need the rest. The second day, I don't care what anybody says, they won't be operating at their full capacity as if they had the day off in between and had the opportunity to go home and rest.
But hey, I'm just a hater, and have never worked the schedule. So I guess ignorance is bliss and I'm gonna keep wasting gas.
hottie4fire
03-23-08, 15:06
Try driving 22 miles to back and forth everyday! I only work 12 hour shifts so commuting is even worse especially with EMT wages.
At least you guys make a good salary.
So, Ash, you would rather- go to work, get your teeth kicked in, go home, sleep, go to work, get your teeth kicked in, go home, sleep, go to work, get your teeth kicked in, go home, sleep and then see you family for three quality days and start the cycle over? Why not go to work, get your teeth kicked in, stay at work, get your teeth kicked in, go home, sleep and then be with the family? If you are that tired on a Kelly, then you are wasting every day between shifts. Remember, your whole crew got their teeth kicked in together and I'm sure the company officer will schedule tours, details, inspections, training, etc. accordingly.
Also, the overtime and trade issue should not be a factor when looking at a schedule for your regular job...it is OVERTIME...EXTRA work that may or may not be available at all times. Think about it; would a guy at Home Depot say, "I don't want to stock the shovels today, because I might get overtime stocking the rakes and I don't want to be too tired." ? We (firefighters, in general) can be so narrow minded...the average working stiff, rejoices when he gets 4 or 5 hours of overtime a week...we cry unless we get 24 hours of overtime in a day!
hottie4fire
03-24-08, 20:34
Hey Jude!
You go boy. or should I say Chuck?
I think I know what Ash is trying to say. He likes being home at least every other day, so he can drink all the rum and pass out. Sober up and save the planet!
Friends don't let friends drink rum.
I think I know what Ash is trying to say. He likes being home at least every other day, so he can drink all the rum and pass out. Sober up and save the planet!
Friends don't let friends drink rum.
Talk about taking a tag line to heart....I don't even know what to say to that!! I dunno, enjoy your seabreeze wine coolers, bro. And don't let your skirt get in the way as you try to put on your turnout pants :-)
As for the 48/96 debate, what it comes out to is that we work the same # of days at the end of the month. Wheather it be 2 in a row or every other day for 3 days. The way my department has it works for me and mine. If it changed, I would adapt to it and it would also be fine. Cause lets face it, the worst day in the fire service is better than the best day digging a ditch!! That is something I think EVERYBODY can agree on.
GirlMedic03
03-25-08, 01:56
we work the same # of days at the end of the month. Wheather it be 2 in a row or every other day for 3 days. The way my department has it works for me and mine. If it changed, I would adapt to it and it would also be fine. Cause lets face it, the worst day in the fire service is better than the best day digging a ditch!! That is something I think EVERYBODY can agree on.
I agree with you ASH.
Different strokes for different folks. What if you are not assigned to a station that "gets your teeth kicked in" as Chuck Norris so eloquently put it.
Oh by the way, I don't care what schedule the fire department is on. When I get my fire spot I will be content. Then I too will be drinking a sea breeze in a skirt on my day off.:)
TaylorMade
03-25-08, 02:03
I just got back from a Chest Pain call that we ran in someone else's district.
It's past 1am, but I can never go straight to bed after a call.
I'm old. I'm tired, and I can't wait to go home in the morning. I'll take a nap for sure. Things were much easier when I was younger.
I'm glad we are not on a 48/96 rotation Mr. Jude.
The "teethed kicked in" was a quote from Ash's reply. Like I said before, we all have our own comfort zones. I've worked the 3/4 Kelly, the 4/6 Kelly, and the 48/96. Usually I liked the one that I was working at each particular time because that is what I was used to and that is what was bringing home the bacon. On the Kelly's, I felt like the day in between was wasted from being tired or just getting ready to go back the next day. On the 48/96, I might need to recover on the first day off, but then I always had the rest of a four day...remember, don't consider overtime when talking about regular duty days. I'm not looking to say one is absolutely better than the other...just seeing what is out there. I'm sure we can all adapt to whatever schedule "they" put us on...because that is what we do in our line of work- adapt and overcome! We don't need to make it a Ford/Chevy debate. I'm just glad we aren't working 10's and 14's...any takers for that?!
Rock on Brother!! Now tomorrow, I'm gonna go home and take a nap while the kids are in school, not drink any rum, and hang out for baseball practice!!
During this debate 48/96 has sum benefits often left out. Take a close look @ the rest / work cycles???
Example: Traditional schedule-
Day 1=Wake up 0600-drive to work-24hrs wake up 0700 drive home on day 2
Day 2= Got off duty rest/family/kids/honey do's/ sleep-wake up day 3 0600
and so on and so on for 4 cycles.... No sleep in allowed past 0600 any day for the full cycle until a 4 day.
Example: 48/96 -
Day 1= Wake up 0600-drive to work-24hrs wake up 0700 NO drive on day 2
Day 2= Wake up 0600-@ work-24hrs wake up 0700 drive home on day 3
Day 3= Got off duty rest/family/kids/honey do's/ sleep-
Day 4= No set wake up / No set to bed times
Day 5= No set wake up / No set to bed times
Day 6= No set wake up / early to bed for 0600 wake up
Just a different prospective from a study done on the work cycles
Just remember... One More and I’m On a FOUR ( you can say that every day you go to work!!!):rolleyes:
...ViCaRiOuS...
04-12-08, 23:21
Thats probably the best break down of the 48/96. I love your saying, "One more and I'm on a four" Right on DHICK. I LOVE THE 48/96.
You may love it...you can have it.....just got off a 48 because I got forced. Didn't like it, but you may. If I was told that was my schedule, I would adapt. Until then, I like what I got!!
chainsaw5vent
04-14-08, 00:55
i've worked the regular 3/4, cdf seasonal 96 hr, and now work the 48/96. definitely love the 48/96 due to the fuel $$$$ savings, a lot less wasted time travelling or preparing to travel, and if you're not working o/t or a trade, every day off leads to a four day.
negatives are..if you're at a real busy station (engine was 6 years old and had 115,000 miles on it) and getting call volume that is insane, 8 calls after 1130 pm and sitting next to the dept. chief during a training session the next day at h/q., and the b/c's not understanding why you keep snoring during training, being away from home for 48 hours or more (why do most homefront crisis happen when you're at the station??)
but if you work with a great crew, all things are better.
I just heard someone mention something about peak staffing(where we are only fully staffed during the busy hours of the day). They said that if the economy was to get so bad that departments would consider this practice to save money.
I don't think that this would ever happen. There is such a high risk of having a major incident during a time where the staffing levels where at a low level and someone was to die or be seriously injured.
Just one more reason to be grateful for the schedule that we have.
Red Hot Truckie
05-01-08, 15:47
I think someone was talking about Messa, Arizona Fire Department has peak staffing. I would get out of my department so fast if that ever happend, no matter how much time I got on, no matter how hard the tower and probation is.....
First let me start by saying that I have experienced the many different schedules that are currently in use. I started as a 4-10hr shift guy. From there I moved into a 24/48 with no Kelly day, then working to receive one Kelly day. I have also seen my folks work in a 24/72 with a debit day, to some of my friends in Seattle working a 24/48 24/96 schedule which gives them 8 working days a month. I currently work a modified Detroit schedule working 24/24 for three shifts then getting 96hours off.
Now we all know as firefighters we hate change, whether it is our work schedule, meal times, or types of responses we go on. I remember when my father’s department went from 24/48 Kelly, to the 24/72 Debit. Most the firefighters hated the move, but the Union made the negotiation to do so to add 75 members (with the addition shift) to its base. When I speak to my father almost 15years into this schedule, he still hates it. He says 72hrs is too long to be away from the station. I guess after 35 years of service he still likes being at the station more than at home.
But, changes are inevitable. This schedule has been proven to have many benefits from both the city side and the CBG side. As the city of San Jose has pointed out, the fire departments use of sick time and vacation time as demised, saving the city in costs today. Our union members will only see this benefit at retirement when our vacation and sick time is maxed out and the City has to, let me re-phrase, GETS to cut us a check for all the unused time.
Now Ash702, as you are a senior member on the site and this is my very first post, I mean this with the utmost respect, sir. You mentioned as one of your arguments about not doing the 48/96 is because of callbacks and overtime. Well Las Vegas is one of the only Departments in the US that has almost unlimited OT. We are lucky to have it when it is available, and I too get my teeth kicked in on the same Rescue as you, but we both work many 48hr shifts and 72hour shifts when we choose to, so I do not see where your argument is valid, sir. Your other argument about moving closer to your department is totally funny; I don’t want to live in the Naked City any more than the people that actually live there. I know you didn’t mean it that way when you wrote it but everyone has a choice to commute from any distance, as long as the show up for shift on time.
Ignorance is never bliss; we want our respected departments to be better off when we retire, then when they hired us. Now I do believe you have some valid arguments about the 48/96, but to use the coinage we make and toy haulers as an attack is below you.
My personal view on the 48/96 is, I don’t think it works for larger municipalities where the majority of their stations are running more than 30-50 calls per shift. Just as FDNY found that a 24 hour shift doesn’t work for them, because of the number of calls their stations run on average. So, in Vegas I don’t see it as advantageous to the members of the CBG, except for those that live in Utah, and I am with you on that they should move closer.
Now Ash702, as you are a senior member on the site and this is my very first post, I mean this with the utmost respect, sir. You mentioned as one of your arguments about not doing the 48/96 is because of callbacks and overtime. Well Las Vegas is one of the only Departments in the US that has almost unlimited OT. We are lucky to have it when it is available, and I too get my teeth kicked in on the same Rescue as you, but we both work many 48hr shifts and 72hour shifts when we choose to, so I do not see where your argument is valid, sir. Your other argument about moving closer to your department is totally funny; I don’t want to live in the Naked City any more than the people that actually live there. I know you didn’t mean it that way when you wrote it but everyone has a choice to commute from any distance, as long as the show up for shift on time.
Key word in your whole arguement is CHOICE. I choose to work overtime and trades (lucky you!!!) If I didn't WANT to, I wouldn't. But at this point, I still have the OPTION of working those hours. Sorry EJ, I'm still gonna say I like what we got, till they change it and I will have to like that. Any way you look at it, our job is better than diggin ditches!!
As far as moving closer goes, I was talking about the guys that drive 60+ miles from their stations and then *BLEEP**BLEEP**BLEEP**BLEEP**BLEEP* about the commute times and how much it costs to get to work. I don't wanna live in the Naked City either, but my drive is less that 10 miles.
And the point that I was making about the $$ is that it is BS to *BLEEP**BLEEP**BLEEP**BLEEP**BLEEP* about gas prices with all the extra toys that some of us have. I have a hard time buying an arguement from somebody that drives a $50,000 truck pulling a $50,000 toyhauler with $20,000 worth of quads inside is worried about gas conservation!! I don't begrudge it...hey, if I could, I would have a boat and toyhauler too. But you don't hear me bitchin' 'bout gas prices and trying to use that as a reason to shift to a 48/96. Oh well, drive safe and may the force be with you.....
(Heres to being bashed some more on this subject)
;)
Yep. The cost of fuel is a total cop out. Gas costs what it costs. Does it stop most of us from driving no. I totally understand what your saying about all the toys and I agree.
But really if you wanted all the toys they all have you could do what they did....... Take out a second and a thrid, and a fourth on your house.
The FatCobra
Ash, I agree with you on the toy haulers and big trucks in regards to fuel prices, I have to shake my head every time I see a $100,000+ rig driving down the freeway with a fireman sticker prominently displayed for the tax payer to see. They don't think about the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th mortgage...they just think, "those fireman make too much money and never seem to be at work." It will be interesting to see if it (fuel prices) becomes more of a factor/reason for different schedules as they continue to climb. A barrel of oil closed yesterday at over $123.00. That is about double from just a year ago. At that rate, fuel will be close to $10.00 a gallon in just over one year from now...I HOPE NOT!!! We may not choose to live in the city where we work, but on the flip side, guys working for places like Santa Barbara, San Francisco, or Milpitas, California may not even be able to affordto live within 90 minutes of their station even if it was a choice. I'm am glad that most everyone seems to enjoy their respective schedules.
Johnny on the spot
05-25-08, 23:37
if the 48/96 shift schedule was a chick, i would totally date her! true story.
Well looks like I may be eating my words on this one. Many of our members, who mostly live out of town, want to propose to go to this schedule. Contract negotiations are coming up and this is a hot topic. If you have previously read this forum, you know that I am against this. If it ain't broke, don't fix it!! But we will see what happens! Stay tuned.......
No worries Ash,
Looks like it didnt pass....we get to keep our 3/4 schedule.
48/96 may work with dudd companies, but I kinda doubt it work with a hot department or a busy company. I mean a person has to be able to get some meaningful sleep. How would you function the second day?
Now it is my understanding that in some departments with hot running whatever's, there is no point in even bunking out, crews just catnap in the recliner chairs waiting between calls. Wow, very busy.
Years ago, 1000 calls per year was considered active. Now, even the dudd engines do better and the hot ones are running a whole bunch more. Boy, am I glad (sometimes) that I'm retarded (er, retired) and long gone. :) :) :)
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