Should departments enforce a workout program?

[F-Dub]

What do all of you think? Should deparments have a physical fitness requirement for firefighters? I think that there should be some form of physical fitness requirement put in to place, and everyone should be tested annually. Now I am not talking about some crazy hard requirement but something a little more basic. Something that requires the firefighter to be able to do a pre determined amount of sit-ups, push-ups, pull-ups, be able to go on the treadmill for a couple miles and maybe some job related tasks. Nothing that is unatainable but something that requires us to stay in pretty descent shape. Lets not make it punitive but lets work with one another, for example give everyone 1 year to get into shape, at the end of the year test everyone and if someone doesnt pass, then give them an additional 6 months to get their. Also we should make someone availiable to help those that do not know how to work out. Someone that can put together workout programs and diets for those that choose or need that type of program. Our department has done something similar but there is no required fitness level, we do an annual test which include our blood work and several aspects of fitness, and it gives you a comparison of your results to others of your age group. But with our program you dont need to be fit at all you just have to test every year, and if your results bother you and you have the desire to change or better them for the next year then you can. But if you choose to do nothing all year and get the same bad results year after year then thats ok too. Dont get me wrong I think it is a great start, but it is also time to take it to the next level.

[rzafire]

I totally agree! Our lives and the lives of our brothers require us to be in shape. It is that simple!

[tuffstuff]

It helps keep people motivated to stay in shape. It benefits the organization and the members because prevention to bad health is the best way to help minimize the heart attack percentages.

[Red Hot Truckie]

Most places have a fitness requirement anyways. To even apply you have to have a CPAT. But that is one of the easiest agilities in the world. When I tested for North County San Diego, they had their own physical after the written, if you passed the written. That agilitie was hard. It did weed out a lot of people.....but you gotta be the best man for the job.

[hottie4fire]

.....but you gotta be the best man for the job.

Now Red Hot. What about the girls who have passed it. Hee Hee.:p

[Red Hot Truckie]

Yeah, your right Hottie. Best PERSON for the job.

[Ash702]

No Truckie....you were right....Best MAN for the job!! LOL:cool:
Just playin' Hottie.............

[GirlMedic03]

No Truckie....you were right....Best MAN for the job!! LOL:cool:
Just playin' Hottie.............

I'm not blind or ignorant. I understand that when you are a woman in a male dominated profession, those types of comments come with the territory.

I know it's not the same when you guys are working shift with a female, but most of the females in this industry understand that, and we are here to do our absolute best.

I want to portray females in the fire service in as positive a manner as possible. Although her point was well made in this thread, we certainly don't need anymore "Hotties" out there doing us a disservice.

Should departments have a fitness requirement for firefighters? YES.

[jude23]

Fitness is a great idea. Making it a priority is the key. Our employers need to set aside time for PT. I know departments that come in at the beginning of the shift, check out their gear and then have a mandatory workout period from 0830 to 1000. Mandatory meaning you are doing some form of physical exercise, even if it's only walking near the station...basically you're not just sitting at the table reading the paper and having coffee and donuts. I know you can't predict calls for service or delay response, so don't go there. We can schedule other training and classes, why not time for PT? Some departments think there is no time to workout because we have to train on the current hot topic...I agree that is important, but what good is it if the crew has all the training and know how to mitigate a high rise fire, but doesn't have the stamina to reach the fire floor?! We do need to take the initiative to workout on our days off, but it sure would be nice if everyone had a designated PT time, and not just the typical "work out when you find the time" (2000 hours).

[DHICK]

I cant help but notice that the word FORCE is in here all too often in my petty opinion!!! As you sit here and debate whether or not you should be forced to work out there are Agencies around the country and plenty right here in so cal that are fighting and bargaining for the opportunity to have time set aside (with runs taking precedence) to exercise on a daily basis @ the station.

think the last stat I saw was 80+% of fireground fatalities are cardiac related, Reason enough to work out... Is for me.

The last point is if there is a organized workout program, assure there are no punitive damages if low scores are achieved!! Rather give bonuses to those who score well and have an incentive to improve performance $$$$$$

Just thoughts.........

[rzafire]

Imagine that, Positive re-enforcement!

[Chile]

What about taking supplements? For us guys who are a little over the top on the whole fitness thing. I hear there HGH has a lot of good things about it. The bad thing is the coast i guess. Anyone know of the long term or bad side affects?

I heard that supplements can often be damaging to your natural production of hormones.

Ever notice that even the legal supplements say, "use at your own risk".

Don't do it!

[Red Hot Truckie]

Yeah, why do you gotta D-BOL so much. Stop D-BOLing. lol

[SO!]

You bet and they should even hold spelling bee competitions.

[hottie4fire]

You bet and they should even hold spelling bee competitions.

This is true. No one likes a puffy guy and a shriveled up brain.

don't you mean D Bowl? what does it mean anyway?

[Red Hot Truckie]

D-BOL is a supplement that some people take. I just say it to people that hulk out for no reason. "Stop D-BOLing on me..."

[fyrglfr]

What do all of you think? Should deparments have a physical fitness requirement for firefighters? I think that there should be some form of physical fitness requirement put in to place, and everyone should be tested annually. Now I am not talking about some crazy hard requirement but something a little more basic. Something that requires the firefighter to be able to do a pre determined amount of sit-ups, push-ups, pull-ups, be able to go on the treadmill for a couple miles and maybe some job related tasks. Nothing that is unatainable but something that requires us to stay in pretty descent shape. Lets not make it punitive but lets work with one another, for example give everyone 1 year to get into shape, at the end of the year test everyone and if someone doesnt pass, then give them an additional 6 months to get their. Also we should make someone availiable to help those that do not know how to work out. Someone that can put together workout programs and diets for those that choose or need that type of program. Our department has done something similar but there is no required fitness level, we do an annual test which include our blood work and several aspects of fitness, and it gives you a comparison of your results to others of your age group. But with our program you dont need to be fit at all you just have to test every year, and if your results bother you and you have the desire to change or better them for the next year then you can. But if you choose to do nothing all year and get the same bad results year after year then thats ok too. Dont get me wrong I think it is a great start, but it is also time to take it to the next level.

Have you ever heard the saying: "One shouldn't throw stones in a glass house"

If this doesn't pertain please post pics Mr. Universe

[HB of CJ]

The poll results (so far) pretty much sum it up. The questions remaining are how should the physical standards be obtained/maintained? If you don't do it, city hall may decide.

How about just adopting Marine Corp standards and work your way up from there. No on-duty PT at all, as it would be expected that you keep in shape on your own time.

Annual mandatory testing. Come promotion time, have one third of the process be physical agility based. Pick just one event and stick with it...say a five mile run.

The top one percent of the guys get golden. The bottom one percent get fired. Yeah, pretty hardball. It would definitely have an uplifting affect on the physical levels overall. :) :) :)

[TaylorMade]

The bottom one percent get fired.

Ouch. I respect your opinion, but you are hard core HB.

Don't you think that is excessive. How about a program that helps a guy reach the standard within a certain time frame.

The fit eval should be an evaluation tool, and something that helps get guys who are not within the minimum standard, up to par. NOT a method to destroy someone's career.

[HB of CJ]

Nawh. You should be in shape before you take on the job. As long as you stay in shape--no problem. Again, if you stay in super shape, (not always possible as you get soosssss old like this old coot) then you are rewarded with choice assignments, schools, do better on orals boards and stuff. A merit system.

If you just give up and can't make/maintain the physical standards, then perhaps it is time to consider becoming a school teacher like first planned. If you are at the very bottom one percent department wide, then you get a little boost for a job career change. You get kicked out. Yep,...retired! Perhaps it is time.

If you think about it from the right point of view, all of this draconian stuff isn't all that bad. We are not talking about Olympic levels here...just perhaps two hours PT daily to get there and one hour PT daily to stay there. In my case, (totally impossible) simply 4 less hours in the sack won't work. For fit young people, very easy.

Anyone former military on this thread? Bet lots of young people here who just got out. Climb on and tell us what PT was/is like in combat units. Is there any difference between active duty military and the fire service? Well, yeah, in the Marines you can get into hack real easy for doing nothing wrong. Also brig time comes to mind.

And never start a paragraph with a conjunction. What? Sorry. My feeble mind boggles. Perhaps what I'm observing here and not communicating well is an impression that the fire service today (primarily the younger people) lack a certain attitude of self dis-a-pline. Sorry again...lousy speeeler. Things are sosss different today.

Years ago, we had no physical standards. I think that even today, there is nothing set down from city hall. It may be coming from the union, but I'm not sure. Bakersfield Fire Deptment. Be easy to find out. I'm sure some of you have contacts. Wonder what the concensus is. And...don't take this OLD coot THAT seriously. :) :) :)

[firemedic301]

The poll results (so far) pretty much sum it up. The questions remaining are how should the physical standards be obtained/maintained? If you don't do it, city hall may decide.

How about just adopting Marine Corp standards and work your way up from there. No on-duty PT at all, as it would be expected that you keep in shape on your own time.

Annual mandatory testing. Come promotion time, have one third of the process be physical agility based. Pick just one event and stick with it...say a five mile run.

The top one percent of the guys get golden. The bottom one percent get fired. Yeah, pretty hardball. It would definitely have an uplifting affect on the physical levels overall. :) :) :)

With ideas like you have you missed your calling, you would have made a great Chief or City Admin officer :confused:

[HB of CJ]

firemedic301....do you think so? Thank you. A recurring theme that I'm seeing is that, for whatever imagined reason, young people today seem to think that, for whatever notion, that YOU are owned something for returning nothing. "Gosh gee, just give it all to me right now...I'm so deserving".

Does the tax-paying public (who by the way, pays your salaries) have the right to expect their employees (YOU) to be in excellent physical shape before YOU decide to take on the job? One would think soossss. Would that include excellent physical conditioning? Yep! Off duty too.

The notion that physical condition could be interpreted as something that is rewarded is silly. You are REQUIRED to be in shape. If you can't or won't, you should/will be assisted out the door. It is a given...not an option. Big diffence. Unless there are teeth, what's the point? :) :) :)

[firemedic301]

If being in physical shape was a basis for being FIRED lets face it 70% of the volunteers and 10% of the career Firemen would be fired tomorrow in your world. Just not feasible. I am not one of the YOUNGER generation that you speak of that is "OWED" anything, I work very hard for my check as do MANY MANY MANY people in the fire service. YES, there is a handful or guy's that believe the world is owed to them, but they find out fairly fast what the real world is all about.

Here is what I can read from your posts, You are a PROUD Marine and a PROUD retired Engineer from a Class 1 dept. AWESOME, however you do not have the ability to be empathetic to ANY of the YOUNGER generations ways!!! YOU feel your way is the ONLY way and screw the rest.

I was raised on a Career Marine/Pasadena PD household and I know where you are coming from, I am reminded everytime I have a conversation with my Dad. However, HE has the ability to kind of understand the NEW generation (he doesn't necessarily agree with it but, tries to understand it). My Dad learned that being a Salty old A$$ kickin Marine only made us start to resent him and not respect him (thanks to my Mom!!! for standing up for us and educating him about valuing our lives for just that, OURS) He softened slighty, talk and LISTENED to us and THAT is what made me completely RESPECT my Dad and his philosophies on life.

I have a 16 year old and I can't understand the whole digital TEXTING world??? With that I have come to realize that it is not for me to realize, it is THIER world - GOOD, BAD, or INDIFFERENT that is the way it is.

So what I'm saying is, TATTOOS or the NEW SLANG you mentioned in a previous post is what it is - the WAY it is. It is like ILLEGAL IMIGRATION, it won't change in a day, no matter how much it irritates you, but telling everybody around you that is speaking Spanish "this is America so speak english in front of me!!!" will only give you ulsers and make you more bitter and discruntled.

I'm positive that YOUR parents and elders didn't like the changes YOUR generation brought with it, but it is what it is "LIFE" and life moves on and constantly changes, enjoy the ride get off at the next stop.

As for reminding me that the public pays my salary - Yes we know, thanks for reminding us.
As for being in shape prior to employment look up the CPAT or BIDDLE physical agility test, all of us on the floor PASSED it.

Here is the bottom line, through negotiations of my passed Brothers, we have negotiated a FAIR and adequate wage and benefit package for the work, skills, and willingness to do what it takes to mitigate whatever hazard threatens Joe Public. That is it, nothing less.

No disrespect to you or your years of service, just giving you my point of view, and the "I walked 20 miles to school barefoot in the snow uphill both ways" lectures don't help us understand our past generations. Just makes us look at you and say, OK sucked to be you???

Too be honest I think myself and my generation has to take some of the blame for some of the OLDER members of our depts physical fitness!!! I try, as do my brothers and sisters, to see a physically laboriss (sp?) task around the station or on a scene and I step up and do it so the SENIOR guys don't have to risk injury and maybe make them alittle healthier come retirement time and that is my bad. Just another thought.

[TaylorMade]

If being in physical shape was a basis for being FIRED lets face it 70% of the volunteers and 10% of the career Firemen would be fired tomorrow

I'm not sure where you come up with those stats 301, but I agree that there are many of us that would not make the cut.

HB has valuable opinions and insight, however my opinions are that things should not have to be so extreme to enhance a firefighter's physical condition.

[firemedic301]

Those are not solid facts just a generalization, for discussion sake.

[HB of CJ]

firemedic301, I hear what you are saying, but you are kinda shotgunning here. We are talking about physical conditioning...not everything else.

With profound respect to you, and great respect to all Fire/Ems personal--your occupations are far too important to let a lack of physical conditioning/training even enter into it.

Your pace today would croak me. No way could I even stay up. But....35 years ago, yeah, I could. But the whole department I worked for....which may be the reason I keep suggesting...

...as a whole, was very much out of shape. Particularily the older guys. Again, lots of pot bellies and overweight people. But...no one died while I was there because of being too fat.

PT is serious stuff and comes along right with the required education. experience and wisdom. The hiring process should (may not) include a physical fitness testing process.

Pick something that is simple, repeatable, and slants the results towards cardio conditioning. Say a timed, competitive long distance run. Simple. Make it bite. Say only one mile. Far enough and saves time.

The top whatever percentage advance to the next stage of the hiring process. Maybe PC can be one third. The written another third, the oral the final third? Dunno for sures.

Make PC required before hiring. Once hired, make PC (physical conditioning) a given. Annual competitive testing department wide. No one exempt. Chiefs also. Say a one mile run. The top one percent...

....again, get golden. The bottom one percent are given 6 months to get better, then get retested. If you can't or won't stay in shape, you get retired. Perhaps fired is too strong. Thank you. Gosh, I'm old!!! :) :) :)

[firemedic301]

firemedic301, I hear what you are saying, but you are kinda shotgunning here. We are talking about physical conditioning...not everything else.

With profound respect to you, and great respect to all Fire/Ems personal--your occupations are far too important to let a lack of physical conditioning/training even enter into it.

Your pace today would croak me. No way could I even stay up. But....35 years ago, yeah, I could. But the whole department I worked for....which may be the reason I keep suggesting...

...as a whole, was very much out of shape. Particularily the older guys. Again, lots of pot bellies and overweight people. But...no one died while I was there because of being too fat.

PT is serious stuff and comes along right with the required education. experience and wisdom. The hiring process should (may not) include a physical fitness testing process.

Pick something that is simple, repeatable, and slants the results towards cardio conditioning. Say a timed, competitive long distance run. Simple. Make it bite. Say only one mile. Far enough and saves time.

The top whatever percentage advance to the next stage of the hiring process. Maybe PC can be one third. The written another third, the oral the final third? Dunno for sures.

Make PC required before hiring. Once hired, make PC (physical conditioning) a given. Annual competitive testing department wide. No one exempt. Chiefs also. Say a one mile run. The top one percent...

....again, get golden. The bottom one percent are given 6 months to get better, then get retested. If you can't or won't stay in shape, you get retired. Perhaps fired is too strong. Thank you. Gosh, I'm old!!! :) :) :)


I like that approach a lot better!!! I can tell ya that ALL the guy's on this board from San Bernardino City FD and including DESERTMEDIC (excluding his recent brush with DEATH:eek:), LVLADDER we are in great physical shape so it is not us you are speaking too, but I do agree that physical conditioning is very very important.

However, as far as the TRADITION and BROTHERHOOD is concerned, I find it personally expectible for a 25-30 year Engineer/Capt/Hoseman to be on the fringes of poor physical shape under a few given circumstances. I think that a member of a give organization that has loads of years on can MOST of the time make up for their lack of conditioning with SMARTER work!!! Also, as long as the member KNOWS his limitations as does the rest of the crews around him, he can do or be given less strenous tasks that are just as important. Generally they are not the only Hoseman on a 3 person engine company.

Our Dept does do annual Physical Evaluation and it gives us a annual reminder on where we are physically, but ultimately a good working Fire (Structure or Wildland) tells each one of us who is in shape and who is not.

I might be alone in this point of view, but I think as long as a Senior guy is still functional on the fire round, we should (as junior members) look for and take the more strenous task on emergency and non-emergency scenes. I personally take pride in knowing that one of my crew that I was with me for the last few years they of their career, retired injury free. I believe we owe them that, likewise I hope in a few years I will have earned that!!!

Also HB, I like the tone in your recent posts!!! I meant no disrespect in my post with my strong tone, I just get alittle boo boo faced when people tell us WE don't deserve the $$$ and benifits WE work our A$$ off for. WE at SB City FD just went through a local Newspaper ATTACK by a liberal watchdog reporter that TRIED to rack us over the coals about our pay without using ALL the facts, so the subject is still a sore spot with some of us at SBFD so your post and telling us WE should be embarrassed was a little salt in the wound, However I bought some TUCKS pads and my butt is better.

For the record - ALL fire departments in Southern California and the Whole WEST COAST for that matter REQUIRE a Physical Test and a part of their hiring process. I could be wrong, but I am not aware of any that don't.