Why does AMR get lost?

[Ventgroup]

Has anyone else experienced this lately? I can't tell you how many times AMR has "gotten lost" enroute to a call. By getting lost, I mean driving past the call when fire is right behind them. Reducing code at an intersection when they see fire is almost at the same intersection, so that fire will get there first. Doing almost anything so that fire will be first on scene. Are AMR crews really getting that lazy? What am I missing? I have read a lot of other blogs on here about AMR medics being burned out and tired of system status and blah blah blah. Yes, I feel for you guys, you definately get abused by the system, but suck it up! That's the nature of the job. I'm really not trying to be a jerk here, that isn't my intention. I am just getting so frustrated by this. Has anyone else seen this problem?

[sansoofireman]

Is the pope catholic?

Them getting "lost" can be blamed on one of two things:

1. They don't know the area well enough. Most of us older folks that worked on an ambulance worked for Mom and Pop companies and knew our response area like the back of our hand. Driver training was difficult, people actually failed, and the bar was set and maintained very high. Nowadays? Not so much.

2. They just plain don't care. I would put money on this one. Transporting patients is their job. It's like being a cop and not wanting to arrest people that break the law.

Attitude, attitude, attitude. That's what it takes to make it on an ambulance. Are they disillusioned because they thought they would save a life every single day? Is it a generational thing because most of the kids coming to the field nowadays have been coddled their entire lives? So what's the answer?

I'm sure there have been enough instances that warrant complaints. Most fire departments have an EMS Coordinator that handles them. If he or she is loyal to the department, the complaints will be handled appropriately. Solutions will be sought after, be it dedicated units, increased driver training, or both. EMS Coordinators need to be loyal to their department and held accountable by their superiors. All complaints should require a solution-oriented response.

My opinion? Captains need the leniency from their superiors to address issues immediately, without recourse. If a dog shits in the corner, you don't talk to him about it two weeks later. You rub his nose in it, tell him not to do it again, and get rid of him if he does. Let's make the ambulance crews understand immediately that they screwed up. Rub their noses in it.

[Ash702]

Ask Hottie4Fire........

[hottie4fire]

SANSOOFireman. Your number one reason is a good explanation.

We often cover five or six different cities. They move us around all day. We cover for all the other ambulances in the area.

You guys only need to learn your city. We need to be familiar with 5, 6, 7, or even 8.

We use the tomas bros maps but they are not always perfect.

We don't get lost on purpose like many of you guys like to ensenyuate.

Right when our guys start to learn all the areas well, our emt's and medics move on to other jobs like nursing or the fire department.

[tuffstuff]

We have not had too much of that problem out in Riverside, but the crew relationships between our guys and the ambulance folks is pretty good.

It seems like most of them want fire jobs, so they tried hard to maintain a good rep.

[Cab911]

Hottie i agree it does make it harder if you are covering 5 or 6 different cities. But remember that there are county fire departments that cover a much larger area. I also remember working with people on the ambulance that could not read a map if there life depended on it. That is not a bash on ambulance personal because a lot of those people now work for fire departments, but hopefully they have improved there navigation skills.

[jude23]

We use the tomas bros maps but they are not always perfect.

I think I might have discovered the problemo...when I was driving the ambulance, we used a "Thomas Brothers Guide" that was printed in Irvine, California. Your map sounds like it might have been printed south of the border...
Just kidding...if you can't laugh at that, then I don't know what will make you laugh!
Seriously, part of the map problems may be because of the high turnover rate for ambulance EMT's and Medics, but that doesn't explain the part about attitudes and slowing down before the address...but hey, it's our city, so we'll take care of the people!

[desertmedic]

Hottie, I agree with you about the several city coverage issue. In the late 80's I worked for an ambulance company in Orange County. :eek: Our station was in Garden Grove. Wed cover Fullerton, Placentia, Orange (before they transported), Westminster, Buena park, Anaheim, Stanton, Rossmore, Dana Point (dont even ask), and Santa Ana (when they went to a tiered response system). Sucked BIG time. So for those who say System Status works Ive got two words for ya...

[trkmant46]

First, if the ambulance company is covering that much of an area like AMR does, maybe the crew can spend alittle money and buy a cheap navigation system. Yea I know that should be the ambulance companies responsibility, but we all know hell will freeze over before that happens. With all the technology out there today, I am sure you can find something to help.
Second, as a Captain I WILL address issues that arise with private ambulance companies. That's part of my job- to ensure the call runs smoothly. Talking with the crew usually has a good outcome.

[sansoofireman]

Whoa, whoa, whoa.... navigation systems?

I was following up on a gnarly MI in a 3rd degree block, and the EMT gets lost because he's trying to get to the hospital while using his CELL PHONE GPS. Needless to say, some stern words were projected his way (I yelled at him). And not even an apology when we get to the hospital. I had another call about 6 months ago, a ripping trauma, and the EMT got lost. A 5 minute transport turned into 15. And the patient died.

Point being, if you don't know, ASK. If you don't ask, we're going to assume you already know or don't care. There is absolutely nothing wrong with asking one of the members of the fire crew what the best way to the hospital is. You'll garner more respect doing that than most things you do on scene. Other than actually loading the patient and not standing there making sure the gurney doesn't roll away...

[jude23]

I don't care how many cities or jurisdictions you cover...how many hospitals can there be?! I thought the ambulance getting lost on the way to the call was bad...but getting lost on the way to the hospital takes it up (or down) to the next level. Sansoofireman, I think you are justified to have "stern words" with the ambulance driver!

[deceptacon]

Jude 23 hit it on the nose..
Its our city.There will allways be new amr medics and emts every 6 months, but we will be in the city for 30 years.So take pride in working for the greatest department around and lets get there first every time and give the best care possible(with the assistance of the ambulance guys)

[FRN-FFS]

The anemic training private EMS providers give their employees is not a regional thing. We have the same problems in my neck of the woods and we don't have AMR. Waiting on scene for 15 plus minutes for an ambulance to arrive, circumnavigation of the city, Mr Toad's wild ride, we've seen it all.

[Anytime04]

I think I might have discovered the problemo...when I was driving the ambulance, we used a "Thomas Brothers Guide" that was printed in Irvine, California. Your map sounds like it might have been printed south of the border...
Just kidding...if you can't laugh at that, then I don't know what will make you laugh!
Seriously, part of the map problems may be because of the high turnover rate for ambulance EMT's and Medics, but that doesn't explain the part about attitudes and slowing down before the address...but hey, it's our city, so we'll take care of the people!

I don't know about any of you, but thats the funniest &^%! I've read in a while.....

[HB of CJ]

First off, I LOVE AMR. We are talking about American Medical Response? You see, 10 years ago, they saved my life. Yeah. I had a very good heart attack. They helped save this person's bacon. SW Oregon, 1998.

They got to my rural home very quickly and when they saw who I was and knew I was a retired FF/paramedic RN they broke procedure and told me that yes, I was having a MI. LAD. Morphine is great stuff. Stint later.

AMR is a good example of what employment is like in the other world of capitalism. You go where you are told, you do what you are told. One city one day, another city another day. Particularily new people.

When I was an EN we knew our first-due like the back of our hand. Really. Also knew our 2nd and 3rd due very well, including all the plugs, alleys, easements, alternate water sources, overhead stuff, etc..

AMR employees simply can't be expected to know every address in 3 or 4 different towns or cities. Again, new employees get bounced around alot in the grand tour. Are we expecting too much? Yeah, they blow addresses.

So what. I will not tell you the time that when I was acting EN out of old Engine 3 and we had a emergency medical assist call at 4 am or sooss and being still asleep, I TURNED LEFT INSTEAD OF TURNING RIGHT!

"Moat" the EN acting as CA looked at me and yelled..."stop, wake up!" He knew the score. Blowing addresses probably still happens more than we are willing to admit. And...as far as letting the Fire Department arrive first....

....it may be more of a respect thing than anything else. Perhaps they are conceding the right of way to the mother agency? Could be. Anyway, I have total respect for AMR....if that is the outfit in question? :) :) :)

[chainsaw5vent]

FUNNY. 3 times in the last 3 days AMR decided to just follow the engine. one our eng'r missed the turn and we had to go around the large block....they just followed instead of going to the address in the fastest route known.
the other time they just followed us not knowing that we switched calls w/ another engine since we were closer to each other's calls. we advised dispatch to let AMR know but they didn't get the info and just follow. duh...is this the updated address?? NO! WE SWITCHED CALLS....silly.
and on the 3rd occassion the AMR crew drove (southbound) by the patient AND the described location because they saw us coming northbound on the same street.

i think that what part of the problem is they don't have the desire to be first on scene to practice the skills.

[Ventgroup]

Just to clarify HB, I too have some rspect for AMR. There are some very good medics within that agency, and some guys that are really cool to hang out with. My purpose in beginning this thread was to point out and start discussion on why it is, that they have a very desheartening track record of driving past call locations, reducing code, taking the longest route, and other means of purposely delaying their response time to ensure that Fire has arrived on scene and done half of their job for them. In my city, Fire even does the call-in for them, so they essentially are nothing but a taxi that arrived late.
I don't mean to knock there medic skills, and am glad they were able to help you when you needed them the most. By the way I'm glad your OK brother. How ever, I do question their morals, and ethics on this subject.
Also, perhaps this only applies to AMR in SO CAL. I don't have enough experience with AMR in other areas of the state to call out All of AMR, just my local area of So Cal.